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TOPIC: Let's Delve Into Shadespire

Let's Delve Into Shadespire 17 Oct 2017 13:08 #255840

The agency and added strategy of shadespire over gorechosen is an interesting design perspective.

I've dedicated an inordinate amount of time to gorechosens design since retheming it, you have to pay close attention through a jewelers loupe to ensure its a tight thematic fit.

I'm not sure which is a 'better' design at this point. Because if you draft action cards in gorechosen (this is a variant play recommended in the rules, and achieves a similar result to the strategic deck building of shadespire), then the agency and strategy is increased without causing imbalance as you would see in the assymetry of the decks in shadespire.

In shadespire, you're stuck with what you built for the entire game and may not even draw cards you'd like to see. In gorechosen, the action cards have a dual purpose as a resource for unique abilities and other activations, on top of being the main engine for how your characters play.

I think each has their laudable benefits, but those may be largely subjective.

I'll still be trying shadespire as it is my mist anticipated game of the year, but I'm just gleaning tidbits outside of actual play to help me understand which design elements I am more likely to enjoy until then.
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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 17 Oct 2017 13:30 #255842

Shadespire seems interesting, but from what I have read, it wouldn't make me want to get rid of Dungeon Command.
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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 17 Oct 2017 14:41 #255848

Colorcrayons wrote:
The agency and added strategy of shadespire over gorechosen is an interesting design perspective.

I've dedicated an inordinate amount of time to gorechosens design since retheming it, you have to pay close attention through a jewelers loupe to ensure its a tight thematic fit.

I'm not sure which is a 'better' design at this point. Because if you draft action cards in gorechosen (this is a variant play recommended in the rules, and achieves a similar result to the strategic deck building of shadespire), then the agency and strategy is increased without causing imbalance as you would see in the assymetry of the decks in shadespire.

In shadespire, you're stuck with what you built for the entire game and may not even draw cards you'd like to see. In gorechosen, the action cards have a dual purpose as a resource for unique abilities and other activations, on top of being the main engine for how your characters play.

I think each has their laudable benefits, but those may be largely subjective.

I'll still be trying shadespire as it is my mist anticipated game of the year, but I'm just gleaning tidbits outside of actual play to help me understand which design elements I am more likely to enjoy until then.

This sounds more or less correct. It doesn't replace Gorechosen for me as Gorechosen is a bit more of a wild ride with critical hits, pushing people into pits, and just general crazy stuff happening. But Gorechosen also feels a little more direct and less dynamic, I think mostly due to the objective deck in Shadespire. Each play has felt pretty different for me with Shadespire whereas Gorechosen plays all feel roughly along the same path.

Matt - if you haven't tried it yet, give the Katophrane Artifact mode a play (it's a variant in the back of Shadespire). It adds a very neat dynamic shift in the game with just a little addition.
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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 17 Oct 2017 21:05 #255874

So I tried Shadespire today, and it is definitely a buy.
I like the objectives A LOT. They brought some warm memories of Netrunner, as in having your game-plan and wondering what your opponent is aiming for. I hope there's room for bluffing and stuff like that.
Also very impressed with how straightforward is everything. It takes literally five minutes to learn how to play (and then spend 5 more reading your cards, of course, but you're playing already). I wish it was on the Ipad, could be a direct competitor to Hearthstone.
We'll see how it goes longevity-wise. I am concerned about balance, and about how fast GW will react to probable imbalances.
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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 17 Oct 2017 21:33 #255875

Hi Vlad, do you find the dice rules confusing? In a tutorial I read about pushing back figures, but there's some restriction that apply on very specific situation. Can't remember what that was. It seems if you have any success, but blocked for no damage, or something like that.
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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 17 Oct 2017 23:50 #255877

If there is an equal number of successes to hit and to block, the model suffers no damage but still gets pushed - are you referring to this one?
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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 18 Oct 2017 02:13 #255881

Yea, I was looking at Rodney's video below:



A. If the attack's success > defense's -> enemy damaged can push target
B. If the attack's success < defense's -> nothing happen
C. If the attack's success = defense's (with at least 1 success) -> no damage and can push target

(I assume of both sides roll no success, nothing happen)

Then he says "in this specific case only", and continues with damage on blocked pushes. Is this damage on blocked pushes happen on both case A and C above, or only on C (since no damage dealt originally)?
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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 18 Oct 2017 07:51 #255900

MattDP wrote:
Love the idea of 3d terrain for this. Can't imagine GW won't ha be thought of it.

I would bet the Arcane Ruins set would provide great parts to use in Shadespire. The set comes in a bunch of pieces so one could assemble them on round bases, about the size of the hexes, and have modular ruin terrain for whatever boards are upcoming.

www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Arcane-Ruins

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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 18 Oct 2017 08:47 #255903

Sevej wrote:
Yea, I was looking at Rodney's video below:



A. If the attack's success > defense's -> enemy damaged can push target
B. If the attack's success < defense's -> nothing happen
C. If the attack's success = defense's (with at least 1 success) -> no damage and can push target

(I assume of both sides roll no success, nothing happen)

Then he says "in this specific case only", and continues with damage on blocked pushes. Is this damage on blocked pushes happen on both case A and C above, or only on C (since no damage dealt originally)?

I haven't watched his video, but I think you're talking about if you can't push someone then they take damage. That happens regardless of whether the attack inflicted damage.

The pushing system is integral to the design as it's a key way to dislodge people from objective spaces. Since characters can only move once per round, if someone moves onto an objective and you manage to push them off, it can cost them key Glory. Ploy cards that let you push allies and such can be a big boon to work around this.
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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 18 Oct 2017 11:42 #255922

Gameplay aside, which title would you guys say had a better narrative during play: Shadespire or Gorechosen?
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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 18 Oct 2017 12:08 #255923

They're somewhat even. I think Gorechosen more regularly produces a fantastic narrative (critical wounds, huge reversals, pushed into pits), and Shadespire's narrative is a bit dependent on the cards and interactions. The range of outcomes and stories is much wider in Shadespire which means some results will feel more mechanical and less evolved from a story perspective.
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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 18 Oct 2017 14:51 #255931

Sevej, that video is too long for my concentration span, sorry :)
The two games I played it was very straightforward, but then again I didn't read the rules.

I think that just because it is so competition-oriented, Shadespire will be less about narrative and more about tactics and combos. Gorechosen is definitely more random, which - at least for me - allows for more emotional detachment, enjoying the ride and the drama.
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Let's Delve Into Shadespire 19 Oct 2017 05:23 #255954

Interesting article on deckbuilding here which does, at least, provide an explanation for why Annihilation is a valid objective: it's there to push you over the line if *both* wabands have been pretty much wiped out:

www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/16/s...-gw-homepage-post-4/
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Oftentimes defeat is splendid, victory may still be shame;
Luck is good, the prize is pleasant but the glory's in the game!
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