Zev is leaving Z-Man Games!

metalface13 wrote: It's sad to see zen go. I guess my dream for pocket battles: Star Wars will never come to be now.

Let's make one.

Gary Sax wrote: The more I think about this, the less it jives with how I enjoy the hobby. I get why they want to do it, and I get why retailers want to do it. Take this quote from Gary's post:

"What will the consumer get out of this? Well, if you're just a get the thing at any price consumer, prices will return to normal, or more likely no more than 10-20% off MSRP as we discover the chinks in the Asmodee armor. On the plus side, I'm suddenly much more keen on running X-Wing and other events AND recommending such products when Asmodee Group games are not sold at cost online."

I could not give less of a shit about this. I hope I never have to set foot in another dank, stinky FLGS ever again. Fuck your X-wing tourney event or recommending things to your customers. So what I'm "getting" is higher prices significant sales. Yay.

Harsh.

In a way, he addresses Mike's serial game point (x-wing). Those are the games you run events on and keep customers coming in. Still, you may not give a toss, but it's natural he would...it's his livelihood...

Regardless, y'all are pretty harsh on game stores. I understand if you live in an area with none nearby...railing against what's unavailable to you is an easy way to act hardcore. Sort of like all the straight edge kids in high school...

Some of my fondest gaming memories are going into a German, smoke filled game store to buy an issue of White Dwarf. This store being the only place to get English editions.

My son is big on the Pokemons. Near as we can tell none of the other 3rd graders in his school actually play (lots of collectors). So, I take him to the other side of town where all the poke-heads congregate on Sundays. He gets to try his new deck and strategies against other kids (and adults) that are into the game. No game store and he wouldn't have this opportunity.

I'm not saying support game stores regardless if they deserve it or not, but they do have value.

The bigger question is does Asmodee think they can roll more dough catering to the serial/event game players localized in stores rather than large mass market sales?

I am harsh on them. Because every FLGS I've been to in the towns I've lived in (3 now) are gross, filled with gross people, and incompetently run. I'm willing to concede some are good but I can only work from my experience when forming my attitudes.

Moreover, the only people I've ever played games with (or now seen playing games on my facebook feed) did not do so after encountering an FLGS.

I think this is not surprising and a long time coming. Z-Man <=> Zev. I don't think you can remove one without the other.

Most of what I felt like saying has already been said, so I will add that, as F:AT's token almost-exclusive-RPGer -- I don't remember when I last played a board/card game, but I play RPGs 2x/week -- the Kickstarter era has been great for RPGs but terrible for board games. RPGs are pretty easy to do via Kickstarter as a one-person shop: do the layout, upload the files, give your backers a coupon to get the hardcopy at cost. Board games, because they need more physical components, suffer A LOT. The logistics are crazy and not in a good way, especially as the demands of the board game hobby get ever more petulant. I think we will see more generic components going forward: cards instead of custom minis. Because the price constraints drive everything massively downward. And the logical response is to vertically integrate everything. It sucks for the consumer but the economies of scale are really hard to argue against.

bfkiller wrote: I'm pretty sure the only game I've ever owned with an Asmodee stamp on it is Mall of Horror, and I couldn't name a single other game from their catalogue with much certainty. FFG and DoW, though... I could name pretty much every game in either catalogue. Definitely a tone deaf decision if they do away with that branding.

I did a quick run through my collection and I have only a handful of games from Asmodee - Age of Gods, Frontiers, and Dungeon Twister. A good bit of shelf space to FFG, though. I also agree that it's a tone deaf decision. I'm also worried that they might pull a GW, too (read: Demand deletion of fan works).

Has Asmodee had a different attitude/policy toward fan stuff, btw?

Gary Sax wrote: Has Asmodee had a different attitude/policy toward fan stuff, btw?

I don't know, but it is a question that needs to be asked, in my opinion.

I think you guys who are all up at arms about FFG-Asmodee are missing the bigger picture. Asmodee has little US market share and FFG has a lot of trouble in Europe. This is a move (I would think) to combine forces and sell multi nationally and share distribution channels.

The my are also probably taking advantage of tax law by doing "inter-company transfers" to avoid import taxes, and get scale of economy discounts on production and freight.

This is a cost-saving and market opportunity move to expand both brands into previously difficult markets for each individual company. At least, that's how I'm analyzing it.

Gary Sax wrote: I am harsh on them. Because every FLGS I've been to in the towns I've lived in (3 now) are gross, filled with gross people, and incompetently run. I'm willing to concede some are good but I can only work from my experience when forming my attitudes.

Moreover, the only people I've ever played games with (or now seen playing games on my facebook feed) did not do so after encountering an FLGS.

I could not agree more. With the advent of meetup.com and forums, it's easier than ever to meet people that you "virtually know" and that takes away a lot of the mystery of playing with/seeking randos at an FLGS. No more popping into a store on the hopes of finding someone who you can play a game with that isn't a douche, and who actually wants to play the game you'd like to.

The days of the FLGS are limited because they are an old-model business. They carry limited selections and the main reason they still exist is Magic and in some cases tabletop games, which seem to be declining. There's a reason GW is going back to specialist games and it's likely because people are sick of the egregious prices and pay-to-play model of WH games.

The upcoming monolithic economic brick and mortar dealer-only model might spur a new interest in used games, classic games, and trading.

SuperflyTNT wrote: I think you guys who are all up at arms about FFG-Asmodee are missing the bigger picture. Asmodee has little US market share and FFG has a lot of trouble in Europe. This is a move (I would think) to combine forces and sell multi nationally and share distribution channels.

The my are also probably taking advantage of tax law by doing "inter-company transfers" to avoid import taxes, and get scale of economy discounts on production and freight.

This is a cost-saving and market opportunity move to expand both brands into previously difficult markets for each individual company. At least, that's how I'm analyzing it.

They already had that, though. Asmodee has owned FFG for over a year now with the precise intent of what you're saying: expanding both lines into each others' territories. What they haven't done is the consolidation thing, which takes two well-known and well-liked brands (DoW and FFG) and replaces them with one that's not as well-known or -liked on this side of the pond. Furthermore, they're doing that brand replacement at the same time that they're attempting this focus on B&M's, which is not only contrary to the way the market has been moving for years, but will also result in greater cost to the consumer if they follow through on their apparent plans. They're sacrificing both recognition and a fair amount of goodwill with a customer base that will easily and quickly flock to alternatives, be it routes to games they want, games that are less expensive (read: Kickstarter), or other hobbies entirely (videogames, especially F2P games), if not all of the above.

If they can make it work and local stores do benefit and the community expands even with higher prices, great. But the odds are steep, from my perspective.

Hadn't seen anyone link Eric Martin's report, which probably has the most complete info to this point. It's also fun to see the kiddos on BGG think that a "boycott" or something similar by the BGG crowd will bring Asmodee to it's knees...
boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/49015/startin...rate-asmodee-north-a

Regarding the FLGS stuff, it may provide value for some, but it provides no value for me personally. So this move can only hurt me, mainly in the pocketbook. You'll still be able to buy online, it'll just cost more.

And honestly, I don't think this has anything to do with FLGS's, I think they're trying to get closer with the Targets and Walmarts where the real money is at.

It was known around these parts, at least in the lair of The True Believers, that Zev was going to be leaving Z-man eventually. Z-man, when it was run by Zev, put out a bunch of great games. He put out a lot of not so great games too but he took chances and put out some games that are among my favorites. Ascending Empires, Wars of the Roses, Arabian Nights. After he sold it and moved to a more "advisory" role, I think they really pulled back on putting out innovative games. Can't think of too many from recent years at all.

He was also a fun guy to hang around and game with on the rare occasions I got to do that. Most times he was busy having games demoed for him at the conventions where I would see him.

In any case, good luck to you Zev in whatever you decide to pursue next.

Welp... I'm not buying more FFG games, but I still want to complete some expansions... this sucks. We're going to pay over twice what you guys pay in the US...

blackdiamondgames.blogspot.com/2015/12/f...rket-tradecraft.html

As Gary's blog post alludes to, this is all about dumping. Asmodee wants to set a retail price FLOOR - I don't think we'll see SUGGESTED retail prices rise. What will happen is this time next year you WON'T see Armada core sets for wholesale cost being sold direct to consumer by Miniature Market, Cool Stuff, etc. Its pretty rare to see inline product, esp core product like that, sold at such a deep discount. And the fact that its one of FFGs licensed and core to their line, makes this announcement pretty understandable.

I am surprised this didn't happen sooner to be honest. But this fall, the various "price war" threads here on BGG at which people there rubbed their hands with glee only exacerbated the fact that the perceived value for a lot of the FFG stuff was 30% below the retail price.

The endless pages of nerd rage on BGG are largely a rehash of the same tired shit - Price FIxing !! ( its not ) I can't buy their games online !! ( you still can ) .