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Edition Wars: What sides are you taking?

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26 Sep 2017 15:41 #254835 by Erik Twice
One of the inevitable realities of boardgaming are edition wars, in which nerds argue and debate endlessly about the best way to play a game or whether the "improved sequel" is actually so. And all of us have engaged in one at some point or another. Civilization vs Advanced Civ, Steam vs AoS, A Sutdy in Emerald 1st Ed vs 2ed.`...what are yours?

Steam vs Age of Steam: I'm firmly on the Steam camp on this one. Despite what the Winsome fans say, the differences between the two games are extremely small. It couldn't be any other way as Steam was meant to be Age of Steam third edition and . The positives for me are:

1) Player-control is better than random production: This is a game lost for 1-2VPs, often less. Having dice rolls decide whether a 6-point cube appears or not is not very fun while controlling cubes through the auction is very interesting as you benefir other players when you do so.

2) Splitting the VP/Income tracks gets rid of gamey kinks
like bumping someone up the track to make him lose VPs.

3) Steam/AoS was not designed with a limited tileset in mind and does not benefit from it at all. Steam has infinite tiles and expansions add a bunch of track in case you need it.

A Most Dangerous Time: The "luck token" that was introduced as a "luck-reducing variant" in the Western release breaks the game. Being able to choose to take a turn in which only you move is beyond powerful because it allows you to push through without risk or worry. It's like always having a trump card in reserve, the power is not so much what it does, but what you can threaten to do with it.

So yeah, what sides are you on and why?
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26 Sep 2017 15:59 #254838 by san il defanso
I think the only one where I have a VERY strong opinion is on Dune vs. Rex. I don't ever need to play Rex again, though Vlad has mounted a strong case in its defense. It just doesn't improve anything I really needed to be improved.

I don't really have any others. I might eventually get this way with Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition, just because that's the first one I've really gotten into. Hopefully WotC keeps that going for a good long time.

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26 Sep 2017 16:26 #254840 by Shellhead
The Chaosium edition of Arkham Horror was impressive for an '80s boardgame, but the FFG edition fired it.

The only versions of Cosmic Encounter that I have played are the Eon and FFG editions. I hated Lucre and Moons from Eon, and really appreciate that FFG left them out. Also, FFG did a fine job of addressing timing questions by high-lighting the applicable phases for using a given power.

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26 Sep 2017 16:36 #254842 by san il defanso
Oh, I forgot that I've also played the Mayfair version of Cosmic Encounter and I had a lot of fun. But FFG all the way for me there.

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26 Sep 2017 17:30 #254844 by Unicron
This is a great topic. Grandpa Unicron says:

1st Edition A Study in Emerald is the only one worth playing.
2nd Ed. Game of Thrones with 6 players is still my favorite game that plays more than three. I think it is a culmination of the best ideas from 1st edition and its expansions.
3rd Ed. Fury of Dracula is probably the only one I would play again
Dune over Rex for sure by quite a lot
Original recipe Frankenberry cereal beats the hell out the garbage currently available under the same name, but it isn't as wide as the disparity between Cool Ranch Doritos and Cooler Ranch. I think Cooler Ranch tastes like postage stamps.

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26 Sep 2017 23:46 #254860 by jeb
3M ACQUIRE. Accept no substitutes. Even the really good ones don't have this sophisticated motherfucker on the box.


DUNE is better than REX, even though REX has vastly better components. I know who the Fremen are. I don't know my fish people from my lion robots in REX. Theme wins.

Valley Games, bless their hearts, made an amazing TITAN game.


I really prefer the SETTLERS game that used clear illustrations instead of some muddy mottled blobs.
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26 Sep 2017 23:52 #254861 by san il defanso
Another vote for old Acquire. It makes me feel like I'm working at Sterling-Cooper.
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27 Sep 2017 01:27 #254862 by Jackwraith
Current (FFG) versions of Wiz-War and Cosmic Encounter.
Battlelore 2nd Edition
I'd say 2nd Ed Talisman, but I never played FFG's 5th Ed and I know they added the Luck feature, which sounds cool.
Runebound and Descent 2nd Ed. I like the variety of the former over 3rd and the reduction in number-crunching and RNG of the latter over 1st.

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27 Sep 2017 06:06 #254865 by Matt Thrower
For me there are very few games where older editions are better. Even if the rules don't change, the components tend to be better. 1st edition Fury of Dracula vs 3rd is a close call but they're quite different games, which trade off accessibility in 1st for greater strategy in 3rd.

Don't have a dog in the Rex vs Dune thing. They're both games I admire more than I enjoy, if I'm honest.

I guess one game for which the components thing doesn't hold up is Nexus Ops. The freaky UV-sensitive board and figures of the original were much more characterful and eye-catching than the bland, if technically superior, FFG plastic. But they play the same so, meh.

My biggest unpopular opinion on editions is that 1st Edition Space Hulk remains the best. Sure, it hasn't got all the pretty miniatures and the rules for psykers are a hot mess. But on the other hand you get a fully flexible game system in which you can outfit squads to your liking with a variety of equipment, include standard marines, chaos marines and 'stealer hybrids, offers solo play and a scenario generator in the unlikely event you run through wealth of scenarios available. And you can adapt the 3rd/4th ed psyker rules easily enough.

Ra is better than Priests of Ra. Never understood the love for that, nor why the changes were made.

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27 Sep 2017 08:43 #254869 by Legomancer
Definitely Steam over Age of Steam. AoS is a game about an auction. Every round there is an auction and you want to make sure you win it as many times as possible. Lose the auction and you lose the game. Steam is a game about building a rail network and delivering cubes.

New Era + Winter over 51st State and 51st State Master Set (and Imperial Settlers). 51st State was good but wonky. New Era polished it up and added some interaction. Winter filed off some of the rough edges. Great game, terrible rulebook and bizarre design choices. Imperial Settlers took the idea, but made it difficult to expand. 51S:MS is a nice compromise, and will do in a pinch, but it's not NE/W.

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27 Sep 2017 09:24 #254874 by Da Bid Dabid
The best edition of the games I care enough about to care about differences in editions that have not already been discussed (Dune vs Rex.... come on):

Blood Bowl: Living Rulebook - It has some things that are weaker than the new version but overall I think I like it better.
GW DungeonQuest - The art and flavor (death warriors, champions of chaos, nurglings) on this wins out every time even if the gameplay has been made closer with revised edition.
Tigris and Euphrates: Mayfair - The new one just looks gaudier, I like the wood over the plastic.
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27 Sep 2017 10:47 #254880 by barrowdown
Definitely Age of Steam over Steam. AoS is a game about an auction. Every round there is an auction and you want to make sure you win it as many times as possible. Lose the auction and you lose the game. Steam is an inferior knockoff game about building a rail network and delivering cubes that just is worse in almost every way.

Oh... I really like auctions so that might be slightly skewing my thoughts.
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27 Sep 2017 10:57 - 27 Sep 2017 11:20 #254882 by Jexik
CATAN My main gripe with the new ones is that it's called Catan. Just a branding thing that I'm sure makes it easier for people to Google it. I've been calling it Settlers for at least 15 years and soon people won't know what I'm talking about.

PANDEMIC [LEGACY] After Seafall, I'm a little worried about legacy season 2. I thought the mechanical innovations to the structure of the first one were at times brilliant, and I'm unsure what they'll do with this one. Will the only real mechanical core be "take 4 actions then random stuff happens?" I played the Cthulhu one recently, and thought it did some neat things. Pandemic legacy cthulhu crossroads would probably be kinda great actually, although it would cause a lot of teeth gnashing around here.

MAGIC: THE GATHERING I think the game is still going strong and will for awhile, but there are have been some really weird design choices over the years, probably just because they need to toy with the design space a bit more. Like back in the alara block (circa 2007), they made colored artifacts. Up to that point, I thought that the colorlessness is what made them Artifacts. Now it's basically just another type, like Sorcery. They also made colorless creatures- big nasty obviously Lovecraft/Beholder inspired beings called the Eldrazi. They're pretty cool overall conceptually, but then in a later block when they re-introduced them they made a bunch of Eldrazi with colored mana symbols, but then gave them all a special ability called "devoid" which just made them still count as colorless for game effects that care about that. Then to top it all off, they made a rare land that can A) Make colorless mana, or B) Make mana of any color, but only if you use it to cast colorless (or devoid) spells. WHAAAAAT!? Why? Stupid. The Transform cards were really neat, but show how digital versions of card games like Hearthstone can handle that much better.

Overall I think they do a great job of catering to players of all levels of seriousness and experience, and the products are pretty varied, so the buy in is actually quite low and reasonable compared to their LCG competitors and whatnot. But even a game like Stone Age or Dominion sucks if people have hugely different levels of experience... Also, despite my issues with weird color behavior as noted above, they've given the mana colors much more easily understood sections of the "color pie," mechanically, which probably makes for a more balanced game. So it's kind of a wash.

DnD: 5e> Classic> 3rd> 2nd>4e> 3.5*

Why make separate rules for Halfling greataxe? Needlessly complicated.
Last edit: 27 Sep 2017 11:20 by Jexik.
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27 Sep 2017 11:29 #254887 by Gregarius
3M Acquire is still superior. If you really want to get into it, I also prefer the earlier version with the brownish cardboard board with clear overlay to the bright yellow plastic board. I also have the edition with wooden tiles, but they just don't POP to the eye like the plastic tiles do.

Catan. I have the German Kosmos edition, which I think is the best due to the clarity of the tiles and cards. I learned and played to death the Mayfair version, but this one is better. I think the newest version has similar artwork, but I couldn't say for sure.

Euphrat & Tigris. The original Hans im Gluck edition will forever be the best. Anyone who says otherwise is a Philistine.

Mare Nostrum: Empires. This is what game development should be. The original was a good game, mired by some finicky components and rule imbalances. With some polish and tweaking (and if you're lucky, poker chips), the game really shines.
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27 Sep 2017 12:30 #254889 by Matt Thrower

Gregarius wrote: [Mare Nostrum: Empires. This is what game development should be. The original was a good game, mired by some finicky components and rule imbalances. With some polish and tweaking (and if you're lucky, poker chips), the game really shines.


Sure. But it lacks the monsters from the mythology expansion. Every game benefits from monsters.
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