Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
Talk about collectible card and miniature games here.

TOPIC: Hearthstone Players!

Hearthstone Players! 11 Oct 2017 07:25 #255491

Great list. I think you've highlighted not just a lot of good cards, but the class identity angle that Team 5 frequently speaks about. It's not necessarily that Druid is about card draw, but it is about dual-option cards. OTOH, certain classes clearly have their identity more tied up in common or class cards, like Rogue, which depends on access to more of those cards in order to get Combo to work. And the one class that Donais said largely lacks an identity? Shaman, which is highlighted by the longest list you've identified, made up of cards from across the Shaman spectrum (totems, Overload, Evolve, etc.)
  • Jackwraith
  • Jackwraith's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Ninja
  • Posts: 1313
  • Thank you received: 904
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jeb

Hearthstone Players! 11 Oct 2017 11:37 #255504

Yeah, we marveled at Shaman. What a chichi Hero. Look at all those rares you need to accumulate compared to others.

This is the pared-down list of the most critical ones--the first pass had 20 more entries, but still nothing was close to Shaman's requirements. If you want to compete in Ranked, at least to Rank 15, you need Rares. They are the engine for wins. Legendaries are gamebreaking, and you should exploit them. But Rares are the cards that are doing the work of advancing you on the Ladder.

Epics are just weird. Let me take a stab at a similar list for Epics in Standard. The ones that would go into a generic Buyer's Guide. The critical ones and the maybes.
Druid
Ultimate Infestation
(Ancient of War)
(Living Mana)
Hunter
Snake Trap (1x)
(Call of the Wild)
(Rat Pack)
Mage
Cabalist's Tome
Ice Block
Primordial Glyph
Pyroblast (1x)
(Meteor)
Paladin
Lay on Hands (1x)
(Forbidden Healing)
(Vilefin Inquisitor)
Priest
Dragonfire Potion
Obsidian Statue
Shadow Visions
(Curious Glimmeroot)
(Shadowform)
Rogue
Preparation
Vilespine Slayer
Shaman
(Doomhammer)
(Earth Elemental)
(Spirit Echo)
Warlock
Twisting Nether
(Bane of Doom)
Warrior
Brawl
Shield Slam
(Gorehowl)
(Sleep with the Fishes)
Neutral
Arcane Giant
Bittertide Hydra
Dirty Rat
Doomsayer
Primordial Drake
Southsea Captain
(Blazecaller)
(Burgly Bully)
(Faceless Manipulator)
(Faceless Shambler)
(Gentle Megasaur)
(Gluttonous Ooze)
(Hungry Crab)
(Molten Giant)
(Mountain Giant)
(Sea Giant)
(Skulking Geist)

I don't think there's any risk crafting these cards (ie, buyer's remorse). There are a couple that are narrow, but they can make or break your ability to play a deck or defend against the metagame in a meaningful way.
  • jeb
  • jeb's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D12
  • Posts: 5236
  • Thank you received: 2029
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hearthstone Players! 12 Oct 2017 14:59 #255601

Just FYI, Jeb: Saw Firebat playing a version of your MalyRogue deck with Meat Wagon and Cold Blood (and Valeera) to pull Malygos and/or Auctioneer. Of course, he also has Barnes in it and pulled Barnes with a Meat Wagon...

Edit: They also just announced a mechanical update for triggers, such that they'll now happen in an intuitive manner. The best example provided was:

1. Stampeding Kodo is played and kills Mad Scientist.
2. Mad Scientist's Deathrattle activates and puts a Mirror Entity into play.
3. Mirror Entity activates and summons a Stampeding Kodo.

That's how it works now. With the update, the Secret won't activate because it wasn't in play when the Kodo was played (which is the only thing that makes sense.)
  • Jackwraith
  • Jackwraith's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Ninja
  • Posts: 1313
  • Thank you received: 904
Last Edit: 12 Oct 2017 15:02 by Jackwraith.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hearthstone Players! 12 Oct 2017 23:19 #255632

I love it when Firebat makes Rank 5 because he plays some weeeeeird shit. I really like the way he approaches the game, and his streams are immensely educational for someone learning how to get better at ladder. When he hits those plateaus he starts playing weird shit and talks about how he's to maximize his win % with what janky garbage he's rocking in this game.
  • jeb
  • jeb's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D12
  • Posts: 5236
  • Thank you received: 2029
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hearthstone Players! 13 Oct 2017 02:10 #255640

Nice lists, Jeb. I primarily play Warlock (and Mage to some degree). For Warlock, I think that I would argue that you need Defile on the rare list. That card is just too good to not be on there -- it is even better in Wild (I love pairing it with an Imp Gang Boss). A decent case could be made for Despicable Dreadlord -- that guy can save you against some of the Hunter/Paladin decks.
  • Space Ghost
  • Space Ghost's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • D10
  • Posts: 2998
  • Thank you received: 682
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jeb

Hearthstone Players! 13 Oct 2017 09:49 #255646

I got so fed up with my post KotFR win rate that I dropped a reddit thread about it on which the consensus is that I must be a poor player. Right now I'm quite willing to believe this is accurate, so I'm going to shut the fuck up.
  • MattDP
  • MattDP's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Shiny Balls
  • Posts: 2563
  • Thank you received: 640
Oftentimes defeat is splendid, victory may still be shame;
Luck is good, the prize is pleasant but the glory's in the game!
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jeb

Hearthstone Players! 13 Oct 2017 11:44 #255658

I've been kind of burnt out on HS after I topped out at Rank 3 in August. My son is trying to nurse his new account along so I've been having more fun trying to help him come up with decks that are still semi-competitive with his small collection.

I crafted Deathstalker Rexxar for fun and so far he hasn't disappointed. Yes, I've lost when I've played him, but his hero power is strictly better than top-decking and as long as you're not greedy about what you craft you can usually get pretty good value out of your beasts. Bearshark is a strong anti-removal choice and most of the 1/1's (the penguin, stonetusk, alleycat) are better choices than a big-statted fatty.

My favorite zombeast moment was when my opponent had a Geist on board and I played a Fiery Bat/Stubborn Gastropod (3/3, Taunt, Poisonous, Deathrattle: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy). My opponent played the Lich King before he killed my zombeast with his Geist - and before he thought through the text on my zombeast's card - and the deathrattle killed his LK. But on the other hand, I had a game against a priest where I crafted a useless zombeast 4 turns in a row. C'est la HS.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jeb

Hearthstone Players! 13 Oct 2017 12:10 #255664

Space Ghost wrote:
Nice lists, Jeb. I primarily play Warlock (and Mage to some degree). For Warlock, I think that I would argue that you need Defile on the rare list. That card is just too good to not be on there -- it is even better in Wild (I love pairing it with an Imp Gang Boss). A decent case could be made for Despicable Dreadlord -- that guy can save you against some of the Hunter/Paladin decks.
Defile and Dreadlord were both on the next tier list, and I agree, they are great. But you can play lots of Warlock without needing those cards--albeit not any Warlocks you want to go to Turn 10, say. Totally fair though, and I recommend them highly. Defile is fun. You can really tune that thing. It's guaranteed to kill 6 health creatures with Imp Gang Boss, has cool interactions with Tainted Zealot (deals 2, pops the bubble, if anything died, deals 2, kills Zealot, deals 1, &c), pairs nicely with Mortal Coil--so much to like there.
MattDP wrote:
I got so fed up with my post KotFR win rate that I dropped a reddit thread about it on which the consensus is that I must be a poor player. Right now I'm quite willing to believe this is accurate, so I'm going to shut the fuck up.
Bah. Reddit shits all over everything. The game right now really rewards just a couple of ways of playing and it those aren't your style, you won't build those decks, and you'll lose all day long. Midrange is super dead. There's no way to play the "Am I the Aggro; Am I the Control" game right now. You need to pick one as you add the first two cards to your deck in deckbuilding. The game does not reward any kind of "thinky" interactions at this point. Every play is pretty prescribed and it makes the game stale for Johnnys out there unless they don't mind losing often.
SebastianBludd wrote:
I've been kind of burnt out on HS after I topped out at Rank 3 in August. My son is trying to nurse his new account along so I've been having more fun trying to help him come up with decks that are still semi-competitive with his small collection.

I crafted Deathstalker Rexxar for fun and so far he hasn't disappointed. Yes, I've lost when I've played him, but his hero power is strictly better than top-decking and as long as you're not greedy about what you craft you can usually get pretty good value out of your beasts. Bearshark is a strong anti-removal choice and most of the 1/1's (the penguin, stonetusk, alleycat) are better choices than a big-statted fatty.
I also nurse my kids accounts and it's hard out there for limited collections. You can get highrolled by a supertuned Big Priest at Rank 20 easy. I don't know if these folks don't play for the first couple of weeks of the month or what, but I say. "Get to your Rank 15 tier already. We Gurubashi players don't need to see you down here." It's cool to filter on "Legenedary" and pick from my kids' six cards and see what we can cobble together. "Ooh, hey we can play a nice Rogue de--wait, no Gadgetzans. Hmm. And only one Eviscerate. Hmmmmmm."
  • jeb
  • jeb's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D12
  • Posts: 5236
  • Thank you received: 2029
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SebastianBludd

Hearthstone Players! 13 Oct 2017 13:01 #255667

jeb wrote:
I also nurse my kids accounts and it's hard out there for limited collections. You can get highrolled by a supertuned Big Priest at Rank 20 easy. I don't know if these folks don't play for the first couple of weeks of the month or what, but I say. "Get to your Rank 15 tier already. We Gurubashi players don't need to see you down here." It's cool to filter on "Legenedary" and pick from my kids' six cards and see what we can cobble together. "Ooh, hey we can play a nice Rogue de--wait, no Gadgetzans. Hmm. And only one Eviscerate. Hmmmmmm."

My son likes his Hunter deck so that's an easy one to make decent on a budget. He also pulled a Light Rag so between that and Stonehill Defender he can field a decent Paladin deck.

Since we're talking about the new player experience, this is a truly excellent reddit post from yesterday where someone built budget KoFT decks for each class, complete with analysis and upgrade options. The Priest deck only runs the DK, C'thun(!) and Raza for legendaries, so that might be an interesting option for my son since he would only have to craft Raza, having gotten Anduin DK and C'thun as freebies.

Edit: Oops, the Priest deck I mentioned is down in the comments, not in the budget list. Here's the Hearthpwn link.
Last Edit: 13 Oct 2017 13:04 by SebastianBludd.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hearthstone Players! 13 Oct 2017 13:46 #255674

I usually don't play the Tavern Brawls, but for some reason I tried this weeks - 10 cards only, when you draw you get to choose between them. So you never run out of cards - no milling.

Whoever thought this was a good idea should be taken out back and shot. It was ridiculously easy for me to craft a deck that would never lose and might eventually win, if my opponent got bored. Reno + Ice Block = fun, fun, fun.
  • engelstein
  • engelstein's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • D6
  • Posts: 478
  • Thank you received: 440
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hearthstone Players! 13 Oct 2017 14:13 #255679

jeb wrote:
There's no way to play the "Am I the Aggro; Am I the Control" game right now. You need to pick one as you add the first two cards to your deck in deckbuilding. The game does not reward any kind of "thinky" interactions at this point. Every play is pretty prescribed and it makes the game stale for Johnnys out there unless they don't mind losing often.

Hm. Don't agree with that at all if you're playing Shaman or Razakus. My last Shaman game was a perfect example: hsreplay.net/replay/hsQomTBUqUPFRwLyfk7mAg

Default assumption against Hunter is that they're the aggro, but anything playing Rexxar is midrange, trending toward control, if not flat out control (This is why Rexxar is subpar.) I keep Thrall because I haven't seen him that often recently and figure that I'm OK with Claws in hand for the early game. However, I don't want the evershrinking Thing in my hand because one thing that remains true is that tempo is king, even for control decks, and if you can pull something better for the early game, you do so. I get a Flametongue, which is OK.

First two turns produces nothing but Steady Shot from him, so he's definitely midrange/control, unless he has the worst hand in the world. Being an actual control deck, I'm content to totem for the first couple turns. Then the Grandmother and the Houndmaster come down and he is now the aggro, even playing a midrange card like Houndmaster. My responses are based on wanting to blunt as much as possible from his attack and set up a minion response if he's playing control. If he's not, he breezes by my Flametongue and tries to do as much as possible to me. If he is, then he's setting up for later turns and that gives me information.

He doesn't, so now I know who he is. Technically, he's still the aggro because he has total board control. He's also walked right into a Volcano... but I'm Overloaded. He's still walked right into a Lightning Storm if I had it in hand, but he's the aggro, so he's applying pressure, as he should. I remove all but the Houndmaster, but he keeps the pressure on, reducing me to 5 turns to live if I can clear the board. Saronite Chain Gang comes down, I automatically check to ensure that the trap is Explosive, although I should have done that before the Portal in case it was Snake Trap (...) and now he's backpedaling, having nothing to play but Companion, which produces Always Huffer, which is the best possible result for me, since he clears himself,

Next turn is key. I play Stonehill, not because I need a ton of defense (although if he plays Tundra and something else, I'm fucked, but slower Hunter decks don't usually play Tundra) but because I want something bigger to put on the board for when I play Thrall. I gladly take the Thing who can be put down right now, with my Flametongue, and suddenly I am the aggro, not only because I have a clear board, but because I also can only be Steady Shot for another 4 turns (or even one turn with Skill Command.) I need to apply pressure now and win next turn if I can. Explosive goes off, I do what I can, and when I see him drop the Wolf, I figure it's over because the KC is in hand. But luck is with me and he drops Bloodworm, confirming once and for all that he's a control deck.

Now here's the key moment. I'm still the aggro, so I ignore his creatures and keep the pressure on, knowing I have to play Thrall to take me out of KC range. He has 6 strength on the board. That plus Steady Shot means I'm dead if I don't evolve any taunts. I don't, which means my aggro gamble failed. But I have two mana left and target the Priest of the Feast, because there's a lot of taunts on 5. And I get one. As long as he doesn't have Hounds in hand, we're good to go.and the game is ours. He then proceeds to Random Shot. Worst case possible is hitting the Creeper. Second-worst is hitting Anomalus, but at least it keeps me alive... and prevents him from gaining any life off the Bloodworm. He reminds me I have three turns to live.

I drop the Gangster and the opportunity to make something big is here, rather than playing the other Chain Gang. But I'm still the aggro. I want as many dudes on the board as I can get. Since I was expecting Rexxar, I kind of wanted a couple that wouldn't die to his Battlecry, too. Right on cue... and now I know I have him. I'm the one that wants to put minions on the board and he's the one who played a card to keep from surely losing the game to minions. I have at least one answer to anything he transmogs that doesn't include Bearshark and his hero power can no longer kill me. After that, the game's over, especially since his Oracle had given me the other Hex that I could use against any transmog he dropped. I used the second Hex because I'm still on a "Cast 40 spells" quest.

I have games like that all the time. Maybe it's a function of playing a lot of Evolve, which necessitates making choices about what your board will remain or what it can become, but I certainly haven't found the meta to be a rote exercise.
  • Jackwraith
  • Jackwraith's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Ninja
  • Posts: 1313
  • Thank you received: 904
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jeb

Hearthstone Players! 16 Oct 2017 15:13 #255795

That's fair. Evolve Shaman--especially the ones running Bloodlust--often have to make this Control/Aggro call.

I finally beat The Lich King with Paladin. Oh my god, what a slog. I cheesed the AI. I was making my own decks for a while, and worked out the Doomsayer Turn 7 tricks and the buffs angle and all that (he gets free copies of your unbuffed minions when they die).

I had tried to make Murlocs work--make a deck that lasts to late game, and win with back-to-back Anyfin Can Happens for massive hasty damage from buffed Old Murk-Eye and Bluegill Warriors. But I don't have Finja to get free Murlocs from my deck and I don't have Megasaurs that really make that kind of deck sing if you highroll into Windfury. Even trying to manage LK's free Murlocs was tough (I was playing Hungry Crab).

I tried a number of variations on control, trying to give him minions like Bittertide Hydra and then Aldor'ing it and pinging. Or That 5/5 that mills you when you play cards for the same idea. Just couldn't get them to work.

I tried playing Silverhand buffs, but I only have one Quartermaster, so that was a struggle--the other cards buff HIS Silverhands after he steals them.

I attempted a Silence-focused deck that played Ancient Watcher, Eerie Statue and Razorleaf Guardian (? the 4/8 can't attack), Silencing them or copying them with Faceless Shambler, &c. Never had enough luck--that one MIGHT be able to do it if everything broke your way.

I tried using Naga Sea Witch and Giants, but it just gives him a lot of Giants.

Read up on how to cheese the guy, and there's a mild exploit involving Stoneskin Gargoyle (3-mana, 1/4 that heals to full health at the start of your turn). If you can manage to get that to the table and NOT KILLED on turn 7 and get it buffed to 6/9 or better stats and Taunt it; the AI won't attack it. On turn 7 it switches to Frostmourne mode, where he wields a 5/3 sword that's Immune, and he is immune as well as long as he controls at least one of the six 2/6 Haunted Dudes (?) he gets for free that turn. So he does the switcheroo, sees a big Taunt he can't trade advantageously with, so he doesn't trade at all. Then you can play out other cards while poking away at his 2/6s until you are ready to go to the next phase (he loses the sword, all the creatures he had at the end of turn 6 come back, and his Hero Power becomes an accumulating ping on you turn over turn: 1 then 2 then 3, &c). This is where folks play Scaled Nightmare until it's big enough to one-shot him. But I don't have any of those either. Instead I played a couple of "Do you hear it's call?"s and C'Thun.

It still took a number of tries. he can wreck plans with his Blizzards and Obliterates, but I eventually got him with a 20-point C'thun, an 11/17 Stoneskin that turned into a Stegosaur, a Bonemare buffed to 9/9 with a bubble, &c. MAN. Super-tough. I wish they had a cardback for this. I'd swap out Heroic Naxx for that. Still, I got Arthas. Feeling good.
  • jeb
  • jeb's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D12
  • Posts: 5236
  • Thank you received: 2029
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hearthstone Players! 17 Oct 2017 13:40 #255843

Playing Buff Paladin on Ladder with my fancy new Arthas. I managed to find the one Elemental Mage on Ladder that
  1. Runs 2x Flamestrike
  2. Keeps one in the opening hand
  3. Draws the other in time to wreck my decent rebuild
2x Flamestrike? Come on man. have you NEVER played a Priest that you can run this slow ass junk?
  • jeb
  • jeb's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D12
  • Posts: 5236
  • Thank you received: 2029
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hearthstone Players! 17 Oct 2017 14:32 #255847

Ha. Elemental Mage is apparently a growing thing now. I ran into one last night, too, while I was playing Handbuff Paladin. He kept a Flamestrike in his opening hand, as well, and dusted my 6/6 Gangsters over two turns with Blizzard and that. But I got my Grook up to 9/11 before I was sure that he didn't play Poly, so I dropped it and it won three times for me...
  • Jackwraith
  • Jackwraith's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Ninja
  • Posts: 1313
  • Thank you received: 904
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hearthstone Players! 18 Oct 2017 00:47 #255880

Best. Galvadon. Game. Ever.

What's that? You mean "An actual win"? Well, yeah. That, too. But, seriously, I was done with all the quests that I could complete (Can they please change quests to focus on the classes that you play, like HotS? I've gotten Hunter quests for the past three days now.), so I figured I'd give Galvadon a spin, since I hadn't touched it since August.

hsreplay.net/replay/zYL6RpnMFb4bfodRuxSBbE

Opening hand was OK. We're both playing quests, which means that I'm on a clock to beat him to the end of his before he burns me out. But that also means I don't really have to worry about Polymorph, which means I can pile stuff on one minion if I need to and use it to clear whatever needs to die (read: Apprentices, if he dares to play them before zero hour.) That also means I'm ignoring obvious trades, like in turn 3. I boost my Hydrologist to 3/3 but I ignore his Arcanologist (Get the gist?) in favor of two things: 1. Doing as much damage to him as fast as possible. 2. If he spends half of turn 4 Fireblasting my frog, that means he's not drawing cards or doing anything else that leads him to his combo (unless he Glyphs it, of course. I LOVE that card.) Meanwhile, I make a Dude and if he doesn't kill it and takes out my frog, I BoK it and move in. I get half my wish, in that he spends the turn Fireblasting, but he also uses Breath of Sindragosa, a seriously underrated card in this control-heavy environment, and clears my board.

So, I got nothing. I make a Dude and play Getaway, knowing that he'll remove it, which means I'll get a half-priced Dude and be able to BoK it on the next turn, which I do. Unfortunately, he's played out enough minions to clear it... but he doesn't, which is strange. He goes face with a 2/3. I'm thinking he's settling in for a longer game because the cards just aren't coming in the right order. So I BoK the Primalfin and probably make a mistake. I clear the 2/3, thinking I want the frog around for multiple turns, but I probably should have stuck to the plan and put more pressure on his face, even if he could clear with the Engineer. Not sure. He Glyphs and comes up with Ice Barrier. I figured it was that or Block, but it might be Counterspell, so I figured I'd test with the Portal and clear his board, knowing it wouldn't do anything significant to the Primafin (Fireball clears whether it's on 6 health or 5.) He freezes my board, but I put the Steed on the panda and I have some serious threat.

But he freezes again (This is why everyone loves playing against Mage...) and largely clears and I get the BoK back. I slap it right down on the panda since, again, these decks don't run Poly. I get the big lizard, and play him: Untargetable, Stealth, +3 attack, Windfury, +3 attack. Almost perfect. I would have taken Dshield over Stealth to protect him from AoE, since he was untargetable and there was never going to be anything big enough on the board to threaten him. He Glyphs into another Simulacrum, probably thinking he needs to play out Apprentices sooner than he'd like. Then comes the second Nova. I drop the Protector and Acolyte, but keep the Steed for the Voraxx. I just want the Protector down as a little more insurance for Galvadon and the Acolyte to draw cards if he Blizzards again or has Glyphed into Flamestrike.

I test the Secret just in case he's running Vaporize (not common, but I've seen it) and pop the Block with the panda and the lizard. Unfortunately, that means leaving him on 9, rather than the preferred 1 or 2. Then Voraxx Steed is played and this is my board at that moment:


This is the Kaleidomenu:


He goes into his roll, but can only get down 1 Apprentice, which means he's able to complete the Quest but then can only just cast it. Once he does that, he has to play the other Apprentices AND some way to keep them alive and can't get Tony down and burn me out. He does get the 2nd Block played (Don't we all LOVE winning three times every time we play Mage! Should we ask if Blizzard will give us two extra wins every time it happens? I might even be able to tolerate Block surviving the next rotation if they did that.) So I'm in a bit of a quandary. I can easily get through the Images and punch all the way through another Barrier and pop the other Block, but I can't do all that if I have to clear all those Apprentices, too. He only has 4 cards left, so I know Tony is in his hand. Topdeck happens. The other Pyro steps up, giving me a chance to pull another spell off the Acolyte and roast everything on his side that needs to be roasted. In cycling through everything, I actually ran out of time. I wanted to Desperate Stand the Voraxx in case something I wasn't thinking of occurred, but I got roped. Didn't matter. All he could do was reveal Tony and concede.
  • Jackwraith
  • Jackwraith's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Ninja
  • Posts: 1313
  • Thank you received: 904
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Moderators: Jackwraith, Mad Dog, wadenels
Time to create page: 0.463 seconds