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Talk abut Movies & TV here. Just tell us what you have been watching. Have hyper-academic discussions on visual semiotics. Whatever, it's all good.

TOPIC: ST - Discovery

ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 08:20 #254591

Next Generation is probably my favourite tv series ever. I know it's not the best but endorphins are just constantly being released as I watch it cuz it evokes so many great memories.

I lasted one season of DS9 (only because of Dax), half a season of Voyager (mostly for Kes) and I never even touched Enterprise (I'm the only person in the world that doesn't find Bakula appealing).

All to say that for some reason I'm genuinely curious about Discovery which premieres this Sunday. The trailer makes it look like it has a special effect budget like the movies. Great special effects does not a good show make but bad ones certainly ruin it for me (Babylon V).

It's all about the characters so I'm hoping the mix is interesting enough. I think I'll give the show a shot.
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 09:14 #254593

Next Generation would have never survived long enough to get good if not for the tremendous goodwill generated by the original series. Next Gen frankly sucked hard for the first two seasons. Then it got good, and then became great. Otherwise, I'm more or less with you on the spin-offs. I never gave DS9 a real chance, because I didn't like the static setup. The majority of the main characters on Voyager annoyed me, starting with Captain Katherine Hepburn, and some of the stories were really daft. I never warmed up to Enterprise, though I randomly started watching again early in the final season, which was actually very good. There was even a two-part Enterprise episode involving the Mirror Universe, including alternate opening credits and music.

But I'm giving the new show a hard pass, for a very petty reason: purple Klingons. Next Gen went to a lot of effort to really develop the Klingons as a race, and I feel like all of that is being tossed out the window by dim-witted Hollywood hacks.
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 10:08 #254601

There's a layer of shellac on Star Trek shows that I just can't get past anymore. Watching old episodes of The Next Generation is almost embarrassing to me now. I don't know how you guys do it. It looks like the Disney Channel. Deep Space Nine tried to take a swing at it (after the producers got pitched on Babylon 5 and opted to make their own) but fell back on the everyone's-happy-at-the-end formula that works equally well in Wizards of Waverly Place.

The Orville appears to have inherited it, in spite of it being a parody produced by somebody else. I was expecting a kind of Space Balls/Blazing Saddles approach on the edge of appropriateness to give the show some lift, but nope. A couple of lame jokes about pizza parties and Elvis, otherwise business as usual in Star Fleet FeelGoodLand. McFarlane has been drugged apparently.
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 10:35 #254603

I firmly believe that Seth MacFarlane's brain is stranded in the year 1980.
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 11:20 #254607

I'm a big fan of Next Gen, although Shellhead is right that the first season is abysmal, and the second isn't much better. But it was lucky that the studio heads were willing to let it find its feet. That rarely happens anymore (Firefly).

I never watched DS9 when it was on, but last year I watched the whole series on Netflix. It's actually very good. Again, you can safely skip the first season.

I tried both Voyager and Enterprise occasionally when they ran, but I just hated them. Much later I watched the final season of Enterprise, and it had improved quite a bit. I'd only give that season a mild recommendation.

I'm excited to give the new show a chance. I don't care what they do to the Klingons. I think it's a mistake to try to keep everything in the same continuity. TOS is still my favorite of the series, but TNG was very wise to jump farther into the future rather than try to continue in the style of what the early 60s thought the future would look like. My limited understanding (I've read almost nothing about the premise of the new show) is that the new show is set in the Chris Pine movie universe, before Kirk helms the Enterprise. I feel like that restricts them more than it frees them (both the writers and the characters), but the producers are probably afraid to stray too far from the known properties.
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 12:23 #254610

I'm gonna sound like a cranky old man, but I'm sick and tired of both this "before TOS" and JJ Abrams "Reboot TOS" Trek.

I want more of the world as it existed at the end of Deep Space 9. I want the Borg. I want Species 8472. I want more of the Dominion. I want the Enterprise F. I want a new, terrifying, big bad that doesn't throw off the rest of the continuity of the show.

I know who the Klingons are! I know what they're about! They're FAR more interesting as allies than as enemies. I know who the Vulcans are too. Trek since Voyager ended has had the same issue as all of these comic book movies where they all have to be origin stories, and they're all action movies/stories. I don't mind a little action in Trek (First Contact is still amazing) but Trek is best when it moves slowly and there's a lot of exposition.

What we REALLY need is HBO Trek, where it can explore more sensitive themes and also move at its own pace. Maybe Discovery being on a streaming service will change that, but I don't really trust CBS to allow it to be what it should be.
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 14:10 #254615

Gregarius wrote:
My limited understanding (I've read almost nothing about the premise of the new show) is that the new show is set in the Chris Pine movie universe, before Kirk helms the Enterprise.

It's not, actually. It's set in the original continuity.
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 15:16 #254621

What we REALLY need is HBO Trek, where it can explore more sensitive themes and also move at its own pace. Maybe Discovery being on a streaming service will change that, but I don't really trust CBS to allow it to be what it should be.

I'm going to stop you right there because that is the LAST thing Trek needs- no real heroes, tons of bad language, endless cliffhangers, willfully obscured story details, "let's be friends...until I rip out your eyeballs" conversations, throat slittings, and tons of doggy style.

What nobody wants to admit, since it is the "golden age of television" and so forth is that the HBO style is lascivious, potboiling trash opera masquerading as "sophisticated" drama. Westworld, GOT, Rome, all of it I've seen is about on par on many levels with some of the Eurosleaze exploitation movies. Strip away the sky high production values, writing and acting and what you have left isnt much more than lurid sex, violence and negative morals.

So please; keep the HBO out of Trek.
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 15:21 #254622

It's probably worth a watch of at least a couple eps, even if the business-model end of it is perhaps the best-known aspect of it. (And, really, didn't we try leveraging ST before to promote, in that case, Paramount's failed network?) The original intent was to have an anthology approach, like American Horror Story in space, and that would've been interesting--probably uneven, but interesting. Instead, we get a show stuck in prequel territory (why?) with what appears to be a heavy focus on the militaristic bent that possibly began with DS9 but has been emphasized even more strongly in "fan" projects such as Axanar. I think it's hard to accept the premise that Star Trek has "always" been about some utopian or at least optimistic future when pretty much every episode of the original series involved some sort of space battle or land skirmish, but I'm not sure beyond the pew-pew factor what the appeal is of having ST in a war setting. The fact that it's a prequel, and seems stuck forever in being a prequel, and that it's going to wither in CBS's streaming-service dead zone (at least in the US), will likely mean it gets a season and no more.
Adding to that pressure is the worrying amount of behind-the-scenes drama that has plagued Discovery. The show has been delayed multiple times from its original January 2017 release date, and now that it’s launching, CBS is still only planning to air half the first season, with the rest of the episodes slated for January 2018. Discovery’s original showrunner, Dead Like Me and Pushing Daisies creator Bryan Fuller, left the project after clashing with CBS executives over budget, production schedule, crew selection, and the intriguing idea of Discovery being an anthology series instead of the serialized show CBS preferred. And CBS as a network just doesn’t seem to have faith in the show. CBS Interactive CEO Jim Lanzone commented to Recode’s Peter Kafka that he doesn’t think science fiction shows work on TV these days, and CBS isn’t allowing any reviews of the show in advance, which is never an encouraging sign.
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 15:25 #254623

Michael Barnes wrote:
What we REALLY need is HBO Trek, where it can explore more sensitive themes and also move at its own pace. Maybe Discovery being on a streaming service will change that, but I don't really trust CBS to allow it to be what it should be.

I'm going to stop you right there because that is the LAST thing Trek needs- no real heroes, tons of bad language, endless cliffhangers, willfully obscured story details, "let's be friends...until I rip out your eyeballs" conversations, throat slittings, and tons of doggy style.

What nobody wants to admit, since it is the "golden age of television" and so forth is that the HBO style is lascivious, potboiling trash opera masquerading as "sophisticated" drama. Westworld, GOT, Rome, all of it I've seen is about on par on many levels with some of the Eurosleaze exploitation movies. Strip away the sky high production values, writing and acting and what you have left isnt much more than lurid sex, violence and negative morals.

So please; keep the HBO out of Trek.

And you keep your hands off'n my Rome. It wasn't PBS, but it wasn't Spartacus either. ;p
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 15:52 #254625

I'm not looking for HBO Trek either, but I completely agree that the new series should have built upon and moved forward with the established continuity of all the tv shows and all but three of the movies. Prequel status is awkward and self-limiting. And the purple Klingons are bullshit. Not only will they be purple, but their society will be loosely based on Trump. That's just wrong on several levels. The Klingons have a culture based on honor and violence, not lies and corrupt trade practices. That's the Ferengi, who are probably also banned from Discovery due to their later introduction in Next Generation.
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 16:53 #254633

Michael Barnes wrote:
What we REALLY need is HBO Trek, where it can explore more sensitive themes and also move at its own pace. Maybe Discovery being on a streaming service will change that, but I don't really trust CBS to allow it to be what it should be.

I'm going to stop you right there because that is the LAST thing Trek needs- no real heroes, tons of bad language, endless cliffhangers, willfully obscured story details, "let's be friends...until I rip out your eyeballs" conversations, throat slittings, and tons of doggy style.

What nobody wants to admit, since it is the "golden age of television" and so forth is that the HBO style is lascivious, potboiling trash opera masquerading as "sophisticated" drama. Westworld, GOT, Rome, all of it I've seen is about on par on many levels with some of the Eurosleaze exploitation movies. Strip away the sky high production values, writing and acting and what you have left isnt much more than lurid sex, violence and negative morals.

So please; keep the HBO out of Trek.

I agree with what you're saying, my wording was inartful. I don't mean specifically HBO style Westworld/Game of Thrones, phasers and titties trek, what I mean is Trek on a channel or a platform where it can be allowed to set its own expectations, and maybe even flounder or outright fail for a season or two while it figures out what it wants to be.

Also, Barnes, you'll enjoy this: www.currentaffairs.org/2017/05/how-tv-be...thout-getting-better
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 21:25 #254641

Michael Barnes wrote:
What we REALLY need is HBO Trek, where it can explore more sensitive themes and also move at its own pace. Maybe Discovery being on a streaming service will change that, but I don't really trust CBS to allow it to be what it should be.

I'm going to stop you right there because that is the LAST thing Trek needs- no real heroes, tons of bad language, endless cliffhangers, willfully obscured story details, "let's be friends...until I rip out your eyeballs" conversations, throat slittings, and tons of doggy style.

What nobody wants to admit, since it is the "golden age of television" and so forth is that the HBO style is lascivious, potboiling trash opera masquerading as "sophisticated" drama. Westworld, GOT, Rome, all of it I've seen is about on par on many levels with some of the Eurosleaze exploitation movies. Strip away the sky high production values, writing and acting and what you have left isnt much more than lurid sex, violence and negative morals.

So please; keep the HBO out of Trek.

I'm going to stop YOU right there. I haven't watched any of the shows you mentioned... but Deadwood and The Wire are the two finest television programs of all time. Isn't "stripping away the writing and acting" out of any sort of television or film sort of against the point of it all?
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 21:36 #254643

I hear Sopranos is pretty good.

GoT is award-winning, record-breaking incredible entertainment. You're not watching enough bad television if you don't consider it "very good" at a minimum.
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ST - Discovery 22 Sep 2017 22:40 #254645

Why does Msample thumb Trebeks post when mine makes the same point in a much more passive aggressive way?!?!

...oh right, Deadwood. Carry on...
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