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× Talk abut Movies & TV here. Just tell us what you have been watching. Have hyper-academic discussions on visual semiotics. Whatever, it's all good.

ST - Discovery

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27 Sep 2017 06:03 #254864 by repoman
Replied by repoman on topic ST - Discovery

Sagrilarus wrote: I did, in spite of my prior comment. A couple of basic observations:

1. Non-stop-thrill-ride.

2. Obligatory character from the old series in the new

3. A very Star Wars-ish look to it.

4. No ending.

5. The main character is a complete loose cannon. She would get life in prison or execution in most modern navies, had she somehow advanced to the position she has in the show, which she wouldn't. Don't know if they're going to leave her as the center of attention, of if she was just an attention grabber for episode 1.

S.


I liked it a lot and I think the arguments being made against it are pretty weak and premature.

Lets start with the opening credits and music. Love them. I'm so glad there is a trend in making creative and representative intro sequences and do not mourn the death of the "clip montage" with yellow 80's font text identifying the actor or actress. Do we have Mad Men to thank for that? Not sure. Anyway, the early 60's artistic influence was pretty cool and seems to have also been influenced by those "fine art retro episode posters" by artist or artists I can easily look up right now. Check them out on Amazon. They are wicked cool. Anyway, the music, in line and harking back to the original series was also a good choice. Much better than the god awful theme from "Enterprise".

Now, lets do away with Geoff's ridiculous complaint that the science isn't right. Radiation poisoning doesn't work that way? C'mon man. They fly in a ship that warps space and time, they have a device that reduces people to sparkles and reconstitutes them just about anywhere, they have devices that supply an endless amount of food, water, and air. They have instantaneous communication across hundreds of light years. But radiation sickness is the one step too far for you. Nonsense.

Looking to Sag's issues. Non stop thrill ride isn't a bad thing. I thought it was exciting and suspenseful. Nothing says all the episodes will be this way. If contemplative episodes are what you like most there is room for that. Remember that one of the great thing about Star Trek is that they can do Big Question episodes, Big Action episodes and Humor episodes (or at least the original series could). The obligatory existing character cameo is a drag I agree. No defense for that although it is consistent with Sarek's soft spot for humans so at least that is cool.

The only Star Wars influence I saw was the holographic communication and even that I thought was cool.

As to no ending. The first 2 episodes are clearly really one episode split in half in order to hook the audience and to get them to subscribe to the streaming service. Not sure if Sag is aware that this show will not be broadcast over normal TV but will only be available through CBS' pay streaming service. I thought that was kind of BS at first myself but it's only $6 a month and you get a bunch of other shows and the ability to live stream your local affiliate so I'm ok with it.

I'm pressed for time right now so just a few more thoughts. Michele Yeoh is awesome but she is not the main character. I thought there wasn't as much chemistry between her and first officer as there should have been. I blame casting and the director for that. New look for Klingons is certainly different but then Next Generation Klingons looked far different from Original series Klingons to in principal I've no problem with a new look. I think the idea that they represent "Trump's America" is media hype. To me their attitude is a further development of them being an analogy for Japanese culture. Pre WW2, some Japanese felt that the west was colonizing all the countries around them. If they did not wish to become another colony and lose their Japanese identity then they had to fight. To fight they needed a modern military and the access to the resources required of such. So began their aggression in South East Asia. Without the religious messiah aspect, these Klingon's sort of share that view.

Anyway, dig the new show. Don't let the wet blanket brigade dissuade you from checking it out.
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27 Sep 2017 08:29 #254868 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic ST - Discovery
Yeah, the credits are lovely, aren't they? I especially like how it honors the GREAT visual design of the original series (which holds up better than TNG, IMO) and touches on the right notes of both nostalgia and modernity.

That is a great point about the Klingons. We went from swarthy dudes with Fu Manchu beards to head ridges, so why not go another step and make them LESS human and MORE alien.

Complaining about science on Trek is like trying to explain why a fish needs a bike.

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27 Sep 2017 09:45 #254875 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic ST - Discovery
When I said it "looked Star Wars" I wasn't referring to the tech, more to the "more is more" aspect of Star Wars where there's a lot more detail in every shot. Wires, dirt, carts, people walking in front of the camera, etc. Traditionally Star Trek has had a more spartan approach, give the actors room to do their job and let them be the center of attention. Both are fine, this episode definitely had more complex sets than prior Star Trek shows. Take a quick look at a shot from The Orville, where even the carpet color is intentionally bland. That's a riff on Star Trek set design.

Non-stop-thrill-ride is fine if that's what you're looking for in a show. I tend to prefer broodier stuff, but that's just me. I think it was a pretty accurate description of the episode though.

I think the one thing that concerns me about the show is that lead character, the first officer. Just did not warm up to her one bit. The Captain -- SHE was interesting. Well designed character, well acted. Michael struck me as a one-note instrument. Hence the Commander Riker reference, the guy that was supposed to be Mr. Suave in TNG and got shown up by a bald old man.

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27 Sep 2017 10:23 #254879 by Disgustipater
Replied by Disgustipater on topic ST - Discovery
Does she sit down like Riker?

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27 Sep 2017 10:48 #254881 by Pat II
Replied by Pat II on topic ST - Discovery
I watched half of the first episode and it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Klingons are fine. I actually prefer a more alien looking Klingon. The opening credits reminded me of Westworld's opening credits albeit less somber. I like that the first alien race we see looks decidedly more alien so that's good. Not sure about CRT head. We can fashion a body for this robot but apparently a Brent Skinner pasty latex lookalike Michael Myers head is out of the question. I think tall alien latex face is Ok as well. I liked the personality so far and crew interaction.

I also watched a couple of episodes of Enterprise last night while sanding my basement ceiling. I think we have classic nerd nostalgia at play here because this new show is what you would hope for from a " New " Star Trek show. I hope they tone down the political rhetoric though and not be such a play on modern politics because I've had it with the news and don't want another United Nations in space show. This is where they might lose me. Not sure about the name Michael and this is coming from someone who's mother in law is also a Pat. I think Mike would have gone over better.

Anyways half way through so far so good. Looks great though. When I watched the premier of TNG 30 years ago I was put off by everything in the art department, this not at all yet.

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27 Sep 2017 18:12 #254906 by engelstein
Replied by engelstein on topic ST - Discovery

repoman wrote: Now, lets do away with Geoff's ridiculous complaint that the science isn't right. Radiation poisoning doesn't work that way? C'mon man. They fly in a ship that warps space and time, they have a device that reduces people to sparkles and reconstitutes them just about anywhere, they have devices that supply an endless amount of food, water, and air. They have instantaneous communication across hundreds of light years. But radiation sickness is the one step too far for you. Nonsense.


I am often surprised at what irks me for "suspension of disbelief", and I find it really fascinating when I get introspective. You're absolutely right that there's so much that's just hand-waved, but some of it rolls off of me and some doesn't.

There's so much nonsense in Game of Thrones that I'm happy to let go, but a raven flying too fast from point A to point B just sets me off.

And in "Downsizing", which we saw early in Toronto, I gave them the silly premise, including the fact that the tiny people's voices were the same pitch, electronics could be miniaturized, all of it. But when there was one stupid twist later in the film that made no sense, they just 100% lost me.

I think, for me, it's two points:

1. It's better if I don't understand what they're talking about. I can give them warp speed, with all the hand-waving they want. But if a star lights up I know how long it takes. I know that radiation poisoning doesn't work that way.

2. If there is a simple way to write around the issue and they don't use it, that's just lazy writing. In the Game of Thrones raven example, they just needed one character to say "I can't believe we've been here four days already" or something simple like that, and problem solved. Same thing with the 'radiation cliff'.

Geoff
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27 Sep 2017 19:39 #254911 by repoman
Replied by repoman on topic ST - Discovery

engelstein wrote: 1. It's better if I don't understand what they're talking about. I can give them warp speed, with all the hand-waving they want. But if a star lights up I know how long it takes. I know that radiation poisoning doesn't work that way.

2. If there is a simple way to write around the issue and they don't use it, that's just lazy writing. In the Game of Thrones raven example, they just needed one character to say "I can't believe we've been here four days already" or something simple like that, and problem solved. Same thing with the 'radiation cliff'.

Geoff


I get your point. Game of Thrones distortion of distance is horrible. The Dirty Dozen go off for what appears to be a month's trek north of the wall and another dude runs all the way back in a day. Winterfell is supposed to be 1000 miles from King's Landing yet a raven flies it in a day. Crazy.

"Everybody talking about the new star" was a regrettable line. If you need help swallowing the radiation thing. Think of the cliff as the moment when the exposure and subsequent absorption becomes too great for them to reverse.
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28 Sep 2017 06:55 #254925 by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic ST - Discovery
My sister and tried watching a bit of this last night. It was awful

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28 Sep 2017 10:11 #254936 by Joebot
Replied by Joebot on topic ST - Discovery

Black Barney wrote: My sister and tried watching a bit of this last night. It was awful


I watched the first episode, and I will say that it gets better. The opening scene in the desert was pretty dire. They did that annoying thing where one of the characters spews a bunch of exposition to another character, even though it makes NO sense that she would be doing that, right at that moment. Why would the first officer be explaining the point of the away mission in the midst of the mission? Wouldn't they have gone over that back on the ship, prior to actually leaving to go on the mission? That's where the "captain's log" conceit was such a smart narrative device. You spend twenty seconds at the opening of every Trek episode, laying out the current situation, and you do with an in-universe concept that makes total sense. That's a much better solution than having the first officer say, "Well, captain, as you know, the goal of our mission is blah, blah, blah."

Anyway, once you get past this terrible opening scene, the show gets better.

I understand not wanting to use the dated production design from the original series, but I wish they'd done little more to tie together things like the ship design, interiors, and uniforms. For example, I thought the uniforms in the Abrams movies were a good compromise. The colors and styles clearly referenced the original series, but they still modernized them (and yeah, Zoe Saldana looks DAMN GOOD in that mini skirt). Even the Klingon armor looks nothing like anything we've seen Klingons wear before. I thought it was weird that the Klingon ship was brightly lit and the Federation ship was down to mood lighting!

Anyway, I'll watch the second episode, which is also available online for free, then I guess I'm done, because I'm not paying for another streaming service, fuck you very much, CBS.
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01 Oct 2017 20:10 #255086 by repoman
Replied by repoman on topic ST - Discovery
Somebody asked about rank markings on the new uniforms.

There are pips on their Star Fleet insignia pins.

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01 Oct 2017 21:53 #255088 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic ST - Discovery
I saw that, but they all had four, a Captain. So I ruled it out. I may have misread it though.

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02 Oct 2017 05:38 #255091 by repoman
Replied by repoman on topic ST - Discovery

Sagrilarus wrote: I saw that, but they all had four, a Captain. So I ruled it out. I may have misread it though.


Michael had 3 as well as the science officer later on.

Watched episode 3 and liked it quite a bit as well. Couple intriguing characters. The pimple faced cadet who blathers was rather amusing.

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03 Oct 2017 11:34 #255161 by Joebot
Replied by Joebot on topic ST - Discovery

repoman wrote:

Sagrilarus wrote: I saw that, but they all had four, a Captain. So I ruled it out. I may have misread it though.


Michael had 3 as well as the science officer later on.

Watched episode 3 and liked it quite a bit as well. Couple intriguing characters. The pimple faced cadet who blathers was rather amusing.


I liked episode 3 better than the 2-part pilot, but it's still off-putting for some reason. I'm beginning to wonder if if Star Trek simply doesn't "fit" into our culture anymore. It's always been an optimistic show at its core, and that optimism now seems corny, or dated. In this era of anti-hero protagonists, Trek feels out-of-touch. But do I really want to watch a Star Trek show where the first officer commits mutiny in the first 30 minutes of the pilot?!? I'm not sure that I do.

It's frustrating, because I think a new Star Trek show COULD have been a brilliant bit of counter-programming. In the face of so much grim 'n' gritty TV dramas, they could have gone against the grain, and come out with a profoundly optimistic show. That might have worked, and might have felt fresh and interesting. Instead, they made what looks and feels like every other prestige TV drama, with a conflicted protagonist who does a bad thing for a good reason, in the midst of big, complex ongoing storyline.

And for fuck's sake, would somebody turn on the fucking lights on the bridge?!? How can these people work in near-darkness all the time??

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05 Oct 2017 09:02 #255253 by Pat II
Replied by Pat II on topic ST - Discovery
The whole mutiny bit has put me off. In the pilot no less. I dont think that fits at all and is a terrible story arc for the beginning of a revamped fan favorite series.

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05 Oct 2017 09:22 #255254 by engelstein
Replied by engelstein on topic ST - Discovery
Watched episode 3, finally. In my first post on this thread, I pre-complained about this:

5. No military organization would let someone get away with assaulting the captain and overriding both her, and the admirals, command. But I'm sure that somehow hey'll let it slide in a future episode. So I'm getting pre-annoyed for that. (Yes, not science-related, but still - stupid plotting)


In light of ep 3 I would like to withdraw the pre-complaint. They did treat it seriously (although did manage to get her back in a crew).

Ep 3 was better, but I'm not sure if it was good enough to keep me watching.

I do, however, agree with those who say they should have started with episode 3, and then flashed back to the events of 1 and 2 when (and if) necessary. Would have been a much more compelling start, particularly if you want people to sign up for your service. They should have gotten the mystery out there right up front.

Geoff
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