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× Talk abut Movies & TV here. Just tell us what you have been watching. Have hyper-academic discussions on visual semiotics. Whatever, it's all good.

The Last Jedi - Full Spoilers

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11 Jan 2018 12:38 #260722 by Gregarius

Michael Barnes wrote: You know it is really weird but I think his shirtless scene is the ONLY time in SW we have ever seen a bare chest...apart from Maul in Clone Wars. Maybe that’s why it is so awkward-feeling.

Luke was shirtless in the Bakta (sp?) tank in ESB, and the Rancor Keeper was shirtless in ROTJ.

Oh, and Chewie's been shirtless the whole time.

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11 Jan 2018 12:43 #260723 by Michael Barnes
I thought about Maliki (he has a name!) after I posted, but I didn’t think about Luke in the bacta tank.

What about Finn’s bacta suit, I guess that must be a new advance in bacta therapy.

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11 Jan 2018 14:44 - 11 Jan 2018 14:45 #260732 by Black Barney
except it leaks everywhere like a cat on a water bed., As soon as I saw that I thought, 'that's stupid. Good thing this movie rocks"


Also Kylo's pants look like the type you can shit in if you wanted to
Last edit: 11 Jan 2018 14:45 by Black Barney.

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11 Jan 2018 14:48 #260733 by Michael Barnes
Well when have you ever seen a bathroom in the SW universe? Does the Millenium Falcon even have facilities?

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11 Jan 2018 14:50 #260735 by Black Barney
one of these days a brave filmmaker is going to show what the primary function of the astromechs are.

"Hey red, get over here..."

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11 Jan 2018 18:15 #260751 by boothwah

Black Barney wrote: one of these days a brave filmmaker is going to show what the primary function of the astromechs are.

"Hey red, get over here..."



This reminds me of a thread way back in the bulletin board days over at decktech.net. We had the ability to post under any pseudonym we wished and Ken B did a highly entertaining series of posts shortly after the special edition "Han shoots second" boxed sets hit the stores, where he posted as George Lucas, and gave spurious production tidbits and backstory alongside plans for the extra special edition.

Anyhoo, Ken aped a lovely bit about them having to double Kenny Baker's pay for RoTJ because he was upset at the running gag of using the R2D2 suit as waste can and pisser between takes.

/Rebuketh me not, peckerhead
//Ken's mom is a saint
///Foiled wieners
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11 Jan 2018 20:29 - 11 Jan 2018 20:32 #260756 by Black Barney
Wow good memory

I wonder if my joke was subconsciously inspired by Kenny B

Schoenthal just found me on the Facebook. He was remembering some funny times in some outdoor hotel pool outside Origins or Gencon 2002 on July 4. Fireworks were going off , we were checking out some chick in a bikini and I kept telling him the fireworks were another attack
Last edit: 11 Jan 2018 20:32 by Black Barney.

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12 Jan 2018 23:24 #260819 by ChristopherMD
Went to see this again tonight with a friend. I liked it the first time I saw it and loved it the second. I don't hold the originals as some sacred texts so that probably helps.

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05 Feb 2018 11:47 #262847 by Shellhead
After nearly two months of dodging spoilers, I finally saw The Last Jedi yesterday. It was partly a protest, in order to avoid watching a Super Bowl between two teams that I dislike. I'm not a good example of a Star Wars fan. I loved the original Star Wars, and I liked Rogue One and the Empire Strikes Back. But I disliked Return of the Jedi, skipped the whole prequel trilogy, and found myself indifferent to The Force Awakens. I was aware that the critics loved The Last Jedi but the overall audience reaction was ambivalent, so I went in with few expectations.

After the rampant non-creativity of The Force Awakens, I did expect The Last Jedi to re-create certain elements of The Empire Strikes Back, and that did happen. But overall I was pleasantly surprised that this movie took many risks and offered several surprises. I feel like I am not the intended audience for Star Wars movies anymore, as the jokes fell flat, the aliens looked silly, and the cutesy critters didn't engage me. The pacing was pretty good and there was a lot of action, but as always, I resented nearly every minute over the two-hour mark.

There were places where the movie stumbled. There were some plot holes, and some overly predictable and generic heroics. Daisy Ridley is just okay, and that's a disappointment since she is supposed to be the star of this trilogy. Rose seemed like a deliberate slap at the rabid fanbase, though I liked her pluckiness and unconventional appearance for a woman in an action movie. Poe seemed to serve as a satire of a generic action hero. Finn actually seems like the most potentially interesting new hero, but I'm not sure if that is because his scenes have been a bit underwritten.

Adam Driver did a great job. He is basically playing a teenage Edgelord, but with nuanced delivery and expressiveness that steals every scene he shares with Ridley. Only Mark Hamill surpassed him, and then maybe only because Luke was given such an interesting role this time around. I liked the way Skywalker deconstructed the whole Jedi thing, and yet showed up when the Rebels really needed him.

I'm conflicted about Carrie Fisher in this movie. Nostalgia and a sense of my own mortality washed over me just seeing her (and Hamill and Ford) back as a classic character in this new trilogy. I think it was great to make her the rebel leader, and she delivered her lines with both grace and gravity. But the scene where she saved herself from explosive decompression using the Force looked really lame, and there is the added awkwardness that her character survived this movie but Fisher has since passed away. From a story standpoint, Leia is too important to die off-screen before the next movie, but it would be uncomfortable to watch if she is brought back via CGI the way they brought back the Grand Moff Tarkin for Rogue One.

The appearances of Benico del Toro and Laura Dern were unexpected. Their characters had some depth, but their performances gave the impression of even greater depth. I wasn't excited to see the return of Yoda, because I always found him to be a jarring note in The Empire Strikes Back. He wasn't annoying, but he also wasn't necessary and just added some minutes to an overly long movie.
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05 Feb 2018 12:54 #262857 by Black Barney
Yoda was the best part! You monster!

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26 Mar 2018 00:27 #266345 by Santorum

Black Barney wrote: Yoda was the best part! You monster!

Hardly.

The best part was literally everything that made the "fans" angry. The fact that many Star Wars fans enjoyed the prequels because they felt like Star Wars should tell you that Star Wars fans should never be listened to. They're idiots. I mean they hold up 30+ year old movies as some magical films of greatness even though they don't really hold up today. Try showing them to someone for the first time today without any explanation and see if they get even half of the reaction of Guardians of the Galaxy. Nostalgia is funny like that. (I'd be happy to address any and all fanboy complaints one by one, because they're all hilariously bad.)

The Last Jedi is good because it was focused more on making a good movie, rather than making a Star Wars movie. Sure, it dragged at times, but it also had to deal with a million fucking things left behind by the previous movie and a million characters that were "important" and had to have something to do. Were there plot holes? What long ass movie tied to giant ass franchises doesn't have plot holes? The humor was fine. I mean, it wasn't Taika Waititi awesome, but it was fine. It set out to tell a specific story (and some filler), and it did that... it created a path for those specific characters and set up the third movie just as any middle movie should.

And really, if you sat someone down to watch Star Wars movies for the first time (with no knowledge of any of it), The Last Jedi might be their favorite.

Fight me.
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27 Jun 2018 13:24 - 27 Jun 2018 13:28 #276382 by Gary Sax
I saw the movie today after so long and read this whole thread. I fall into the I liked it a lot camp, I guess.

You guys have covered this, but I really really enjoyed the messaging and theme of the film. So different than previous films---the movie has a non-hero's journey message to communicate. I think Star Wars has needed to be about something for a long time, and this film really accomplished that with its best developed characters (e.g. Kylo Ren, Luke, Rey... maybe Poe?) To me, this is going to be the great contribution of the movie to the series. I hope more polished entries carry this emphasis with them as well.

If you're someone who wants to know the logical universe continuity of how things work in this universe and why some things work and why others don't you will absolutely hate hate hate this movie. Distances, technology, etc are just in service of the plot. I'd argue the other films have this but it is certainly front and center here. While I get others have this trait, I don't have this problem. Moreover, I think that the internet gets way too involved in putting a universe logic into non-hard sci-fi and basically critiquing movies based heavily on technological/universe continuity. But again, if this is you, go for it and definitely don't watch this movie.

Like others, I do think that the word awkward is important. This movie felt incredibly disjointed and incoherent in some ways. A lot of movies do the "weave three threads together" thing but I felt like this one struggled with it. The way the segments spoke to each other wasn't great, to me, in terms of keeping up pacing, etc. So I think overall this movie is a great idea that is nevertheless awkwardly executed... which I'd still rather watch than a slick hero's journey continuation but the film was far from perfect. I still found it more enjoyable than the much better paced and made Force Awakens.

Some small things:

Mark Hamill must have been like "thank fucking god I get to do this role but actually get act with some interesting character material."

It blows me away that "fans" have gone on the offensive and hounded the actress playing Rose off twitter for this role. Or the "she can't be an admiral because she's wearing a dress" thing (previous admiral: fish man). I didn't think Rose was like a very well developed role (nor Finn's in TLJ, tbh) but wtf. Similarly, the stupidity of this "remake last jedi to reflect fan values" move is like the most transparently gross thing of all time.

I also thought the Casino scene was a weak point. I think the intended message/theme of the scene was important for the movie but it was clumsy in execution, to my mind.

Michael Barnes wrote: Like I said, in The Clone Wars the morality and “goodness” of the Jedi are frequently called into question but this is really the first time in the films that we are told that maybe the Jedi are not really what we want them to be. Or what Luke wants them to be.


Well, tbh, I'd argue the ending of the Clone Wars is explicitly yelling this message in your face after it being the theme of every season after the first, but... you know my love of the Clone Wars. IMHO, still the best Star Wars thing besides Empire.
Last edit: 27 Jun 2018 13:28 by Gary Sax.
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27 Jun 2018 13:57 #276389 by Michael Barnes
I watched it on Netflix last night, and loved it more than I did.

It’s a surprisingly artful SW film- it’s all very thoughtfully composed and with many absolutely stunning compositions. The throne room scene is one of the five best scenes in all of SW- I love how the red backdrop burns down, rains ash on everything, and they are left at the end in front of these floor to ceiling windows out into space- burning it down has opened a new view. The key theme of the film.

That scene also really cements Kylo Ren as one of the best SW characters...I love that moment when he has his hand out to Rey and he says “please”...he NEEDS her, and that moment of longing is really powerful.

But it is also at times awkward, clumsy, and even strange...but I love that! It is the only SW film that feels a little off the rails and possibly dangerous.

I think it is definitely the 4th best SW film. Possibly 3rd.

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27 Jun 2018 16:20 #276408 by Gregarius
It's weird how times change. I guess I should blame the internet.

When Return of the Jedi came out, fans *hated* the Ewoks. "They're teddy bears!" "How could their sticks and stones beat Stormtroopers!?" "Does 'forest moon of Endor' mean it's the moon of the planet Endor, or that it's a forest moon named 'Endor'?" (ok, that last one was probably just me)
They loved Jabba, but hated almost everything else about those scenes. "The Rancor looks fake!" "How come nobody recognizes Lando?" "Wait, we're supposed to believe this was all part of Luke's plan!?"

Nerds like me complained. Nobody listened. Time passed. All was forgotten. We moved on.

These days, it seems like the whining fans feel entitled to some response. As if the moviemakers *owe* them to make films the way they want. And this harassment of actors for their roles? Ridiculous & pathetic.

I know this post has a particularly "get off my lawn" feel to it, but beyond my old-man rant, I think things really have changed. By being able to share their opinions with virtually everybody, and to have those opinions get "likes" or reposts or whatever, it makes even the lowest moron think he has more power than he does. It's weird. Especially when those morons actually do influence change.

Anyway, I liked the Last Jedi a lot. It definitely has problems, but it also has awesomeness. It's probably the first SW film since Empire where I didn't know what was going to happen and was excited to find out.
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27 Jun 2018 18:12 #276416 by Sagrilarus
When you look at Lucas' original plans for this trilogy you have to thank your lucky stars for anything better than battling mitichlorians.
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