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How do you avoid MURDERING your SPAWN?

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15 Dec 2016 03:08 #240633 by mads b.
And when I say time out I mean that I as a parent move away from the situation. If I need to remove the kids from something, I usually go with them.

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15 Dec 2016 08:36 #240641 by Black Barney

cranberries wrote: A note on melatonin dosage: news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017


I take this every night so this is really helpful. I think I took 5mg last night and I was still up for hours :(

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15 Dec 2016 14:07 #240679 by san il defanso
We've employed some judicious spanking on the first one, but I found that I was unable to do it without being way pissed off, so we've basically abandoned it. Our younger son is generally more laid-back anyway, so he's done very little stuff that anyone would consider spank-worthy. I tend to be a pretty big non-violence guy too, so I found it very difficult to teach my kids about non-violence when violence was something I was willing to resort to. I'm not sure if that's an actual inconsistency, but it felt like it to me anyway.

It's absolutely true that kids, especially very young kids, can make you super angry. It's tough when they are so little that you can't even express that anger in a healthy way, so it feels like the only solution is to put a hole in the wall. Thankfully never did that, but I've come close once or twice. I remember on the first night we brought our eldest home, I just about felt like giving up. I saw his little red face screwed up in a horrible shriek, and I swear I saw him sprout tiny horns.

It does get easier, at least in terms of when it's really hard. Preschoolers and elementary schoolers have completely new challenges, but for the most part they keep regular business hours, which is very different from the constant all-hours part of infants. Our older one is quite active, and can drive you crazy with his energy. But I think having his younger brother around has mellowed him out a little, or at least taught him that he's not the center of attention.

All I can say is hang in there. It doesn't always seem like it's worth it, especially in the early going. Upon meeting expectant mothers, my wife assures them that it's okay if they don't love it every minute of the day. She felt a lot of pressure to be in this exalted motherly glow all the time when our first was born, and she wasn't feeling it. I don't think dads have the same pressure, but I did feel a little guilty for thinking those first couple months kind of sucked. Babies are much more fun after about four months or so. It is ultimately worth it, but it's worth it on average, not at all times. There are definitely highs and lows.

One thing we did to maintain sanity was to give each other a night away from the houses once a week. This ended up being my de facto game night, while my wife went out with her girlfriends. I think they not only helped us to not hate our kids, but it probably did a lot to strengthen our relationship in a very difficult time.
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15 Dec 2016 14:45 #240684 by jeb
We've got our oldest in therapy for years. She is very intense, and would not tolerate ANY kind of discipline. We don't hit our kids, but we did have to drag this one to her room for timeout, because she wouldn't go. And once there, we had to hold the door. We put the lock on the outside, to buy ourselves some relief there, but then she smashed the door with a softball trophy and eventually popped the screen out the window and went outside. The other kids are a combination of more laid back and/or terrified of her and the havoc she wreaks.

It's pretty fucked up. I have smashed holes in the wall out of frustration. Like I said, fucked up. I'm better now, as is she. We skill get some deep INTENSE hate off of her from time to time, but not every day which is how it was for a spell. Therapy has been good. It gives her someone else to talk to, and someone impartial that can help her see we aren't awful people. She's very self-centered, so things not going her way are a problem for everyone, basically. Having five other folks in the house who have needs that matter cramps her style.

We do a lot of praising, and man, there is a lot to praise. These are all smart talented kids, killing it in tough schools, decent to other people and amazingly well-behaved with others. I feel like they bottle up a lot of things and unload it at home, and that perspective has helped us navigate some tough times too.

I do try to get myself away from things when she's on a tear, but she will come after me when I do this sometimes. It's a trial. Keep your heads up, they will get more reasonable. Literally: like, you can reason with them. And they end up pretty damn tough if they get through a childhood like this. ain't no middle school drama for her, that shit's all small potatoes when you were at war from ages 5-9.
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15 Dec 2016 15:13 #240688 by Gary Sax

san il defanso wrote: It does get easier, at least in terms of when it's really hard. Preschoolers and elementary schoolers have completely new challenges, but for the most part they keep regular business hours, which is very different from the constant all-hours part of infants.


Good way to put it.

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15 Dec 2016 17:07 #240704 by mads b.
I'm suprised to see that some of you guys have actually hit your kids. And I'm not saying this to be judgemental (I obviously am being judgemental, but that's not the point of saying it :-) ), but because it's just so very surprising. Of course I have had the urge to maybe slap my kids and hope it would help, but I would never, ever do it. It's just a road you can't walk back from, and in every confrontation from then on out, the threat of violence will hang in the air. Also, by law laying hands on your kids is illegal in Denmark and has been for some years now which I think is great. Not because it's a law that is being enforced, but because prohibiting it sends a clear signal that violence is never allowed.
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15 Dec 2016 18:18 #240710 by san il defanso

mads b. wrote: I'm suprised to see that some of you guys have actually hit your kids. And I'm not saying this to be judgemental (I obviously am being judgemental, but that's not the point of saying it :-) ), but because it's just so very surprising. Of course I have had the urge to maybe slap my kids and hope it would help, but I would never, ever do it. It's just a road you can't walk back from, and in every confrontation from then on out, the threat of violence will hang in the air. Also, by law laying hands on your kids is illegal in Denmark and has been for some years now which I think is great. Not because it's a law that is being enforced, but because prohibiting it sends a clear signal that violence is never allowed.


This is basically the conclusion I came to as well. I wish I'd given it thought before having kids, but like many I assumed it was good enough for my kids if it was good enough for me. We do the best we know to do, and ideally that threshold keeps increasing as we get older.
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15 Dec 2016 19:15 #240719 by Sevej
Sadly that's not the conclusion I've come to. Every child is different, and they can be *radically* different. When I was in my early 20s (unmarried), watching Super Nanny or Nanny 911, I thought it's piece of cake to handle any kind of child behavior. Later a relative who live with had a child who was whiny and cried a lot and I used to told him how to discipline the kid (it worked). Then I lived near a neighbor whose kid was *extremely* active and impossible to exhaust. Normal disciplinary actions simply did not work. Time outs, taking a break, eye-to-eye contact, talking on the same level (the kid was not speaking yet)... once I saw the guy went in his car to cool down and the toddler freakin climbed his car grill (and if I hadn't picked him up the kid would have banged on the car windshield). The kid did calm down though on his 3rd year. Went into a discussion with a friend on this, and he said his father spanked him a lot when he was a kid because he was truly naughty. His own daughter, on the other hand, is an angel.

Another friend's kid *almost* had a terrible accident during a bout. Reading a "tip" from "experts" in the internet, she left her child in her apartment to cool down, the child almost got out to the balcony. Now before you're saying she shouldn't have left the kid in any condition, know that she's with her child 7 days a week, with no one else to help, and realize that this situation could be extremely trying.

It's really easy to feel guilty after reading article like "99 reasons not to hit your kid" or something like that, but after seeing quite a bit of children with temper, I can't help but thinking there's a reason for old-style spanking. In my opinion physical disciplinary action can work very well, but only if you can do it well. Some people become even angrier when giving physical punishment, and they should never hand one. If you have to physically discipline a kid, do it to discipline the kid, NOT to satiate your rage. But of course if it could be avoided, it's best not to use them at all. Unfortunately, just like all the problem in the worlds, each child is unique.

(and that hoo-hah in such articles about the kid fearing you, lowering their value, etc, etc, etc? if you've ever seen me playing with my daugher and how she giggled uncontrollably you wouldn't believe me I'd ever hit her--even if it was just for shock)
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16 Dec 2016 08:36 - 16 Dec 2016 08:39 #240745 by Black Barney
Sevej, leaving your kid in an apartment with an open balcony isn't the fault of "experts" giving "tips" on the Internet, it's just bad neglectful parenting. Eric Clapton didn't blame the Internet either.
Last edit: 16 Dec 2016 08:39 by Black Barney.

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16 Dec 2016 09:21 #240761 by Shellhead
As mentioned upthread, people in this thread might find The Babadook interesting to watch. The name is dumb, but it's a great horror movie and directly on this topic.
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