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Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
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06 Jan 2017 09:44 #241973
by Black Barney
Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews was created by Black Barney
Well that was much better than I was expecting. i knew it was going to be good, i had no idea it would be THIS good. There were one or two moments that I was literally on the edge of my seat.
Amy Adams is great in this and thank goodness as the movie really revolves completely around her character. The movie has a few similarities with both Contact and Interstellar but is better than both on many levels. I had a few hiccups at the beginning (why would the military fly fighter jets that low over populated areas?) but as the movie got more complicated, it actually started to make more and more sense. Good storytelling for sure.
It's neat how in a movie about aliens visiting Earth, the movie is much more about us than them.
The soundtrack is extraordinary too.
Very recommended, one of this 2016's best.
Heart rating: 4.5 stars
Brain rating: 4 stars
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07 Jan 2017 17:53 #241974
by Vlad
Replied by Vlad on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
Man, Arrival is so November '16 I don't even remember it now.
But agreed with your sentiment, generally speaking
But agreed with your sentiment, generally speaking
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23 Jan 2017 09:45 #242861
by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
Watched this last night and really enjoyed it. Not better than Interstellar though. It is better than Contact.
My only problem with the film was that the very premise makes no sense. I mean, not just in a sci-fi way but it's absolutely idiotic that this advanced race would come here and rely on us figuring out a way to communicate with them. I would think they'd be able to easily figure out how to communicate with us, given their ability and technology.
My only problem with the film was that the very premise makes no sense. I mean, not just in a sci-fi way but it's absolutely idiotic that this advanced race would come here and rely on us figuring out a way to communicate with them. I would think they'd be able to easily figure out how to communicate with us, given their ability and technology.
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23 Jan 2017 10:10 #242864
by Jarvis
Replied by Jarvis on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
See I took it as both sides were working on ways to communicate with each other. It wasn't just us.
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23 Jan 2017 10:21 - 23 Jan 2017 10:22 #242866
by charlest
It certainly didn't seem 50-50.
They came to Earth and then sat there, waiting for the humans to initiate conversation.
They only spoke/vocalized after humans initiated conversation
They only responded with writing after Louise initiated
They never learned an English word or phrase, instead sticking to their form of communication and requiring the humans to use it as well
I mean, imagine us thinking we need to convey some important message to aliens that exist on Mars (which don't know anything about us), knowing we'll need their help in the future. So our plan is to land there and sit in our shuttle, only responding in English when they address us in Martian.
You can handwave it I guess and say they think differently than us or their cultural differences could explain it, but it just seemed weak to me.
Replied by charlest on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
Jarvis wrote: See I took it as both sides were working on ways to communicate with each other. It wasn't just us.
It certainly didn't seem 50-50.
They came to Earth and then sat there, waiting for the humans to initiate conversation.
They only spoke/vocalized after humans initiated conversation
They only responded with writing after Louise initiated
They never learned an English word or phrase, instead sticking to their form of communication and requiring the humans to use it as well
I mean, imagine us thinking we need to convey some important message to aliens that exist on Mars (which don't know anything about us), knowing we'll need their help in the future. So our plan is to land there and sit in our shuttle, only responding in English when they address us in Martian.
You can handwave it I guess and say they think differently than us or their cultural differences could explain it, but it just seemed weak to me.
Last edit: 23 Jan 2017 10:22 by charlest.
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23 Jan 2017 10:53 #242868
by Gregarius
Replied by Gregarius on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
Wasn't the whole point of the movie that learning their language also allowed us to think a different way? Maybe they *had* to teach us to think that way in order for us to understand that we would help them in the future. I think the language, though fascinating, was just a stepping stone to this bigger goal, and them learning our language would not have helped towards that goal at all.
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23 Jan 2017 12:01 #242874
by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
Their required atmosphere made it difficult for them to take any kind of initiative other than parking their ships and opening their doors. They probably have been observing humans for sometime and knew how they would respond.
I get what you're saying though charlest and it's true that their passivity is annoying since it gives humans all the rope to hang themselves with. My only thinking looking back is that they must have been supremely confident in their defensive and/or offensive capabilities over humans to be that passive.
I just really like the focus on the language cuz it reminds me of what I consider to be the best Star Trek episode of all time, across all series, Next Generation's "Darmok". It's just so Gene Roddenberry's vision. And this movie reminds me of that.
I get what you're saying though charlest and it's true that their passivity is annoying since it gives humans all the rope to hang themselves with. My only thinking looking back is that they must have been supremely confident in their defensive and/or offensive capabilities over humans to be that passive.
I just really like the focus on the language cuz it reminds me of what I consider to be the best Star Trek episode of all time, across all series, Next Generation's "Darmok". It's just so Gene Roddenberry's vision. And this movie reminds me of that.
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23 Jan 2017 12:30 #242875
by SuperflyPete
Replied by SuperflyPete on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
I agree with Chuck. No fucking way can a race of interstellar travelers with vastly advanced tech not be able to pick up TV transmissions from decades of broadcasts and not realize "Hi!" is an English greeting. Or in any other language.
I get that the learning of language is the core of the plot but fuck it's contrived.
It's like they took Star Trek: The Motion Picture's bullshit VGER plot (apparently advanced races don't understand how to clean nameplates) where Voyager 6 became sentient and had a universe's worth of knowledge but couldn't figure out how to communicate. Especially when fucking English among other languages is ON THE GOLDEN RECORD.
I get that the learning of language is the core of the plot but fuck it's contrived.
It's like they took Star Trek: The Motion Picture's bullshit VGER plot (apparently advanced races don't understand how to clean nameplates) where Voyager 6 became sentient and had a universe's worth of knowledge but couldn't figure out how to communicate. Especially when fucking English among other languages is ON THE GOLDEN RECORD.
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23 Jan 2017 14:16 #242880
by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
at least they didn't talk to the whales
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23 Jan 2017 15:19 #242882
by Ancient_of_MuMu
Replied by Ancient_of_MuMu on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
Did IQs drop sharply while I was away?
They explicitly state in the movie that the aliens came to (a) teach us their language and (b) get humans to work together as a planet, which is why they take their strange path of first contact.
They explicitly state in the movie that the aliens came to (a) teach us their language and (b) get humans to work together as a planet, which is why they take their strange path of first contact.
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23 Jan 2017 15:46 #242883
by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
When I took Spanish class the teacher didn't start by sitting in the closet, waiting for us to try different methods to communicate with her. She wasn't advanced far beyond our technology/knowledge level either.
At the very least..wouldn't they have started off with written language if that's what they were planning on teaching?
Again, I liked the movie quite a bit but just thought that was lame.
At the very least..wouldn't they have started off with written language if that's what they were planning on teaching?
Again, I liked the movie quite a bit but just thought that was lame.
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23 Jan 2017 15:54 #242885
by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
Your teacher probably wasn't a heptapod. They seem to do things different than us.
And they DID start off with written language. Remember that the aliens giving their language is the whole point to why they are here. The 'gift' is linguistic relativity.
And they DID start off with written language. Remember that the aliens giving their language is the whole point to why they are here. The 'gift' is linguistic relativity.
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23 Jan 2017 15:59 - 23 Jan 2017 16:02 #242886
by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
They did not start off with written language. They waited for humans to speak to them and made weird noises in response. Remember Louise is recruited via the recording. They don't use written language until she insists on it.
I guess my point is that their entire purpose is to give a gift as you note, but their way of giving that gift is to sit back and wait, hope someone comes up with the idea to try written language and they spend effort into deciphering it.
The only rationale that makes sense to me is that since they can view the future (time not being linear), they knew they needed to give this gift to humans but had to fumble their way through it because they didn't know how. Much like Louise fumbling her way through that meeting with the Chinese General.
I guess my point is that their entire purpose is to give a gift as you note, but their way of giving that gift is to sit back and wait, hope someone comes up with the idea to try written language and they spend effort into deciphering it.
The only rationale that makes sense to me is that since they can view the future (time not being linear), they knew they needed to give this gift to humans but had to fumble their way through it because they didn't know how. Much like Louise fumbling her way through that meeting with the Chinese General.
Last edit: 23 Jan 2017 16:02 by charlest.
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23 Jan 2017 16:09 #242887
by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
yeah, i think your rationale is correct. They see the future and know that they will need help from the humans down the road. The need to teach the humans this trick which is totally related to their own language, so they have to make sure to make zero effort to understand the human language or the humans will cease to attempt to understand the heptapod language (which is the key to the linguistic relativity).
The only humans that will probably be able to make an attempt to learn their language will be the most curious ones so they leave it to them to approach the glass and all that. If they were too forward with another culture, the wrong culture, things would have become aggressive probably too fast.
We both agree that the movie is asking the audience to make a few jumps.
The only humans that will probably be able to make an attempt to learn their language will be the most curious ones so they leave it to them to approach the glass and all that. If they were too forward with another culture, the wrong culture, things would have become aggressive probably too fast.
We both agree that the movie is asking the audience to make a few jumps.
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23 Jan 2017 16:47 #242889
by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Arrival - Barney's Incorrect Five Second Reviews
I liked it, and I liked the effort associated with it. I am all for these thoughtful SF exercises, I think they let us explore aspects of our shared humanity* in interesting ways. The vaaaaast majority of SF filmmaking is either 1) shit. 2) explosions!!one! or 3) both.
I respect the effort made at making the heptapods alien. Too many aliens are actors with accents, ears, and some skin tinting. We're a lot more likely to encounter Horta than Romulans, and probably even more likely to encounter intelligences that are non-organic in the traditional sense. 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY is the pinnacle achievement here, obviously. Does anyone want to go deep on this film with me? I can guide you to its hidden truths.
*I do acknowledge that our "shared humanity" is usually told from a white elite perspective, natch.
I respect the effort made at making the heptapods alien. Too many aliens are actors with accents, ears, and some skin tinting. We're a lot more likely to encounter Horta than Romulans, and probably even more likely to encounter intelligences that are non-organic in the traditional sense. 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY is the pinnacle achievement here, obviously. Does anyone want to go deep on this film with me? I can guide you to its hidden truths.
*I do acknowledge that our "shared humanity" is usually told from a white elite perspective, natch.
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