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My Surreal Afternoon Spent Explaining Scythe to my Boss.

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20 Dec 2018 09:30 #288520 by repoman

Sagrilarus wrote:

san il defanso wrote: It does the thing it does really well without being very clear on what that thing actually is.


Uh, can you clue us in on what that thing is? As best I can tell Scythe tries to do frikkin' everything, all of it simultaneously. It's a kitchen-sink design. The only thing I think it's missing is a rondel.


Don't be throwin' shade on the Rondel. I love the Rondel.
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20 Dec 2018 10:38 #288530 by SaMoKo
Imperial is still one of my favourite Euros. The rondel is blessed.

Oddly I haven’t liked any other game made by Gerdts or whatever his name is.

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20 Dec 2018 13:15 #288544 by Sagrilarus

RobertB wrote: IIRC, in Stonemeier's design notes he wants fighting allowed, but expensive.


He missed that by a country mile. There's no charge for fighting.

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20 Dec 2018 14:01 #288551 by SuperflyPete
I still love to stand on my wonderfully high horse knowing that of all of the Miniature
Market rabble had said this was a fantastic game, amazing, outstanding, exemplary...and now people are realizing the Emperor is buck naked
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20 Dec 2018 14:08 - 20 Dec 2018 14:09 #288553 by ubarose

san il defanso wrote: Scythe is fine, but it's not nearly as cool as it looks from the box art. Actually, I think its key problem is that it doesn't have any sort of focus as a design, but it does all of that unfocused stuff in a very interlocked, efficient design. It does the thing it does really well without being very clear on what that thing actually is.

It does come off as a massive bait-and-switch though, especially for the average user on TWBG.


This is exactly why the conversation was difficult.

Scythe isn't "nearly as cool as it looks from the box art." So when a 15 year old asks for it for Christmas, I gotta ask myself, does he really know what sort of game it is. In my experience teens want games with a certain style of player or social interaction, and Scythe doesn't have it. I have no doubts about my boss's son's ability to teach himself how to play Scythe, I just doubt that the game is what he thinks it is.

Lacking the ability to actually question the kid about what his expectations of Scythe are, my only recourse was to determine if it was in fact the sort of game he would like. The only person in the room who was able to do that was his dad, but for his dad to make that determination, his dad needed to communicate to me the types of games his son liked, and I needed to communicate what type of game Scythe is. But as Nate points out, it isn't really clear what Scythe is or what it does. This difficulty was further compounded by the fact that although my Boss does play board games, he doesn't speak boardgame.

Hoping that a game reviewer might be better at explaining Scythe than I was, we went hunting on the internet. Since most of the board game sites were blocked, we were only able to get through to YouTube video reviews and a handful of written reviews. Every single written review used boardgame jargon within the first three sentences. The clerk at the FLGS - same jargon.

In our search, we hit upon the whole spectrum of board game culture, and I got to view it through the eyes of what we typically would call a newbie. It truly is confounding, odd and insular. I came away wondering how any newbie clears the bar to entry into this world.
Last edit: 20 Dec 2018 14:09 by ubarose.
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20 Dec 2018 14:25 - 20 Dec 2018 16:14 #288554 by Frohike
They go to reddit and get all of the latest recommendations for whatever was published or Kickstarted this year, like those who entered the hobby when Scythe was published. They're presented with a jargon-laden cult of the new, cloaked in the authoritative garb of deep esoteric knowledge, and they learn by expensive trial & error. But hey, at least they're entertained by humorous videos and top 100 lists along the way!
Last edit: 20 Dec 2018 16:14 by Frohike.
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20 Dec 2018 15:42 #288560 by hotseatgames
This makes me wonder... how many "mega" releases from this year did NOT begin on Kickstarter? Any at all?

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20 Dec 2018 16:00 #288561 by RobertB
@Sag - Combat points and popularity aren't free - IIRC it's a minor PITA to get those.
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20 Dec 2018 16:08 - 20 Dec 2018 16:08 #288563 by ChristopherMD

hotseatgames wrote: This makes me wonder... how many "mega" releases from this year did NOT begin on Kickstarter? Any at all?


Didn't you co-design a non-KS game that sold out and is showing up on GotY lists?
Last edit: 20 Dec 2018 16:08 by ChristopherMD.
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20 Dec 2018 16:18 #288564 by RobertB
ubarose wrote:

In our search, we hit upon the whole spectrum of board game culture, and I got to view it through the eyes of what we typically would call a newbie. It truly is confounding, odd and insular. I came away wondering how any newbie clears the bar to entry into this world.


I don't run around searching for them, but I think it's neat to find a new subculture out there, that you didn't even know had a subculture. Like airsoft weapons, or WoW raiding, or bronies. Sure, you get folks who use terminology as a barrier or a rite of initiation, but it's also the shorthand that speeds up communication. You say 'memory leak' and your developer neighbor knows why you've been pulling out your hair for a week.
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20 Dec 2018 17:16 #288569 by jeb
That's a great point, Shellie. We've reckoned with insularity here, and I can't imagine what it's like to stumble on this page. Maybe I should fire up some discussions about the best shit to get at Target or Wal-Mart.

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20 Dec 2018 18:45 - 20 Dec 2018 18:45 #288571 by hotseatgames

ChristopherMD wrote:

hotseatgames wrote: This makes me wonder... how many "mega" releases from this year did NOT begin on Kickstarter? Any at all?


Didn't you co-design a non-KS game that sold out and is showing up on GotY lists?


You're very kind, but STF is not what I would call a "mega" hit in the way that Root would be. Most people have never even heard of my game, thanks to it being pretty well ignored by the YouTube review set.
Last edit: 20 Dec 2018 18:45 by hotseatgames.

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21 Dec 2018 15:46 #288620 by Jexik

hotseatgames wrote: This makes me wonder... how many "mega" releases from this year did NOT begin on Kickstarter? Any at all?


This is the top 10 sales (probably gross) list for 2018 from the largest store in my area.

1. Gloomhaven (kickstarter)
2. Azul
3. Stuffed Fables
4. Century: Spice Road
5. Villainous
6. Unlock(s)
7. Scythe (kickstarter)
8. Dinosaur Island (kickstarter)
9. Western Legends
10. Grimm Forest

Not sure about 9/10, but I know that 2-6 are NOT kickstarter. And most are new, and not perennial good sellers like Catan or something.
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21 Dec 2018 16:21 #288623 by hotseatgames
9 was kickstarter for sure.

Thanks!

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21 Dec 2018 16:39 #288624 by charlest

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