Free Tibet

SenorOcho wrote:

mikoyan wrote:

Because we all know that Communist News is forthright and honest right? The gist of his article seemed to be to the affect of "tough shit Tibet is owned by China...deal with it".

Yeah, never mind that the guy knows more about Chinese history and culture than you ever will, he's clearly a communist so let's outright dismiss everything he has to say.
Of course, our news is so forthright and honest that they've been following this for years and not just bringing it up now because of the olympics, right?

I don't personally have an opinion on Tibet, because its silly to point fingers without getting your own shit in order first. For example... where do you all stand on North Ireland?

Since his position sounds pretty close to the official Chinese position, I would dismiss it out of hand. I remember too many of those Radio Moscow broadcasts of how life was so peachy under Communism.

And what does Northern Ireland have to do with the US anyway?

mikoyan wrote:

Since his position sounds pretty close to the official Chinese position, I would dismiss it out of hand. I remember too many of those Radio Moscow broadcasts of how life was so peachy under Communism.

Perhaps, as crazy as it sounds, what they're telling is closer to the truth than you think?
If you're going to just dismiss everything you disagree with, then why have any discussion in the first place?

SenorOcho wrote:I don't personally have an opinion on Tibet, because its silly to point fingers without getting your own shit in order first. For example... where do you all stand on North Ireland?

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Northern Ireland ! .... Fuck - if you're going to be that much of a fucking dickhead then all of you Yanks better retreat out of Texas and cede a few million acres back to the Native Americans.

And I'm not English or British, just a migrant, so no use ramming NI down my throat :-|

SenorOcho wrote:

mikoyan wrote:

Since his position sounds pretty close to the official Chinese position, I would dismiss it out of hand. I remember too many of those Radio Moscow broadcasts of how life was so peachy under Communism.

Perhaps, as crazy as it sounds, what they're telling is closer to the truth than you think?

An Englisher, a Frenchman, and a Russian spectate an "Adam and Eve in Eden" painting in a museum. (maybe the Creationmuseum?)

The Englisher says: "Adam and Eve, are clearly English. Look how modest they are."

The Frenchman counters: "No, no, no, Adam and Eve have to be French, because they are *naked*."

The Russian interjects: "Adam and Eve are Russian and that's why: They have nothing to wear, nothing to eat, but still think they are in paradise."

BTW this is a joke from Russia.

Southernman wrote:

Northern Ireland ! .... Fuck - if you're going to be that much of a fucking dickhead then all of you Yanks better retreat out of Texas and cede a few million acres back to the Native Americans.

And I'm not English or British, just a migrant, so no use ramming NI down my throat :-|

Hah. I do believe that was the part of the point of the article I linked.

SenorOcho wrote:

I don't personally have an opinion on Tibet, because its silly to point fingers without getting your own shit in order first. For example... where do you all stand on North Ireland?

I'm not sure I quite understand this. Are you saying people shouldn't have an opinion on bad stuff happening in the world because other bad stuff is happening in the world?

Where do I stand on Northern Ireland? I hope the peace holds. With the Northern Ireland Assembly, Northern Ireland has powers to call a referendum for independence. Scotland is currently gearing up to hold a referendum on independence in 2010. Throughout the troubles Northern Ireland was democratic and unionists and republicans were elected to parliment. There were of course many wrongs committed by the Brittish government and military during the troubles. I thought they were terrible at the time as well.

Citadel wrote:

I'm not sure I quite understand this. Are you saying people shouldn't have an opinion on bad stuff happening in the world because other bad stuff is happening in the world?

I'm saying we should focus on what's going on HERE before we go around telling other people how to run their countries. How about our hyper-corrupt healthcare and insurance system for a start?

Last time I checked Northern Ireland didn't live in censorship city, were actually able to vote and are pretty free to decide their own future should they choose too.
The Chinese layman, not so much.

I also don't understand the logic that you should just let assholes ran rampant because things aren't 100% paradise at home. Because you have to pay a bit more for healthcare than you should that suddenly means you can't comment on 1500% inflation in Zimbab?

Who is responsible for the inflation in some tiny-ass country in Africa? Does that fall to us? Are we here to solve every problem in the world? Why haven't we invaded North Korea? Why are half of the east-European governments still in power? What are we doing about the 110% business income tax in Belarus? Why haven't we done anything about India's caste system?

Why is it that the same people who want minimal governmental interference in their own lives want the government to fuck with other people's lives? Why can't the average American think beyond one election cycle?

What the hell?

SenorOcho wrote:

I'm saying we should focus on what's going on HERE before we go around telling other people how to run their countries. How about our hyper-corrupt healthcare and insurance system for a start?

I don't think anyone here is suggesting launching world war three. People have the right to hold opinions about what happens in the world. By your logic, why should anyone have the right to comment on healthcare if they smoke, drink, eat junk food, or fail to perform their regulation 100 jerks every morning? Or, how could people without children comment on a country's education system? Democarcy is about people deciding for themselves what they think is right.

The Olympics is a showcase for a country. It is about bringing the nations of the world together in friendly competition. Any country that holds the Olympics is asking to be scrutinised. China is rapidly modernising. It is difficult to say if it is a communist state anymore. Its economy is also growing rapidly. There are hopes that China is moving towards democracy but there are also concerns about what is really going on.

I oppose China in general. Whether they are the Communist anti-Christ or not, their entire national policy consists of furthering their own interest at the expense of everyone else's; You can't entirely blame them for that, but to pretend that it is not their national policy and in so doing aid and abet their policies which are detrimental to the interest of one's own nation, is irresponsible and foolish.

I don't know how much of what China does wrong occurs because we let them do it, and it's really impossible to know, but whatever the case, we should treat them as a potential threat, and not buy too much into the myth of their impending modernization.

Giving them free reign in the hopes that they will modernize and "liberalize" in gratitude has only caused economic harm to the US, political harm to the Chinese, and environmental harm to the world.

I firmly suspect that China is holding things together through the Olympics, and that something will probably happen after it. It's just a gut feel, but China is so focused on the Olympics that they might be sacrificing later problems to simply look like the Middle Kingdom of old.

--Mike L.

Mmh... I just read up that the "Tibetan demonstrations" where really just a mob of monks damaging and burning down Chinese stores, which also wasn't really supported by the general Tibetan public. Understandable when you consider that their form of government before the Chinese invasion was a strict feudalism which only benefited the ruling clergy and the "God-king" Dalai Lama. You will have to ask the Western media how this unjustified and bloody riot could be turned into a nonviolent protest for the freedom of Tibet.

I hereby retract all my previous statements in this thread.

Schweig! wrote:

Mmh... I just read up that the "Tibetan demonstrations" where really just a mob of monks damaging and burning down Chinese stores, which also wasn't really supported by the general Tibetan public. Understandable when you consider that their form of government before the Chinese invasion was a strict feudalism which only benefited the ruling clergy and the "God-king" Dalai Lama. You will have to ask the Western media how this unjustified and bloody riot could be turned into a nonviolent protest for the freedom of Tibet.

I hereby retract all my previous statements in this thread.

I can honestly say that whatever reports are coming out of Tibet are probably not 100% accurate, no matter who is doing the reporting. My thinking is that it's probably closer to 50% accuracy on all sides. That said, the entire Tibet situation is not good for everyone involved, and something needs to be accomodated on all sides.

I still do stand by my belief that something is going to happen after the Olympics.

--Mike L.