FFG Asmodee Discussion

Upstream, somebody mentioned "what I want in game." What I really want in gaming is a fantasy that can't ever exist, yet alone be fulfilled by one of those plastic-filled, garish FFG offerings.

I want to play weird little games based on science fiction that nobody at The Force Awakens has ever read, games created by obsessed auteur brothers with full hipster beards who survive on community grants and fan donations, like Dwarf Fortress, only made of paper.

I want to live in an alternate reality where Cheapass games still exists, only every game is really good, and the experience is so immersive that, like an RPG, you don't even notice the components.

I want to play games my kids will play with me, that make us all laugh together.

I want to play a game that teaches me something about the world, is historically accurate, and is still a blast.

FFG might fill that niche, and if it does, I'll buy a used copy of the game eventually.

charlest wrote: I don't get all of this Armada didn't sell talk.

I have contacts at the UK's biggest gaming wholesaler. They tell me that Armada stuff is constantly selling out there, and shops are demanding more.

It's selling.

SuperflyTNT wrote: Tried and true, huh? I was thinking more, "they can be great but they also could fuck up a free lunch (TM/Sauer)" personally.

What I'm saying is, they've put out a hell of a lot of quality products. They've put out some pretty crappy ones as well, but by and large they're a company you can trust with your gaming dollars. The same can't be said about 'companies' that folks have no problem throwing two or three hundred bucks at to make sure they get everything, sight unseen. It just seems a bit absurd to me that people are so quick to write them off entirely.

At the risk of sounding contrarian, I don't know that FFG is any more reliable of a high quality game design firm as the other big'ins. If I had to name a company that constantly delivers well designed games, FFG's penchant for 12 page errata documents would be something I'd view as a disqualifying trait.

I'd say that Days of Wonder is more reliable by far, or Kosmos, or Queen. That said, I'm not sure they are apples to apples based on complexity.

I think all game companies are equal, more or less. The games they make fit (some) people and others hate them, so really, I think if you base "quality" on objective criteria like component quality then yes, they make good games. If you base it on design quality, then Games Workshop and Avalon Hill looks far better.

Honest question (i.e. not being snarky): How long has it been since you tried a new FFG game? Their penchant for pages of errata before things have even shipped was left behind quite some time ago. Now, they do still print FAQs, but that's a consequence of publishing games that are relatively complex, which most people here tend to enjoy. I had the same complaints as you several years ago, in that their quality control was pretty poor. But after the Mansions of Madness debacle, they hired a couple proofreaders to go over everything prior to printing and I haven't heard any major complaints since then. They've done a couple balance adjustments to X-Wing, but that happens in any kind of minis/wargame in the same way it does in video games (witness the constant balance changes to things like Starcraft and League of Legends, for example.)

As for hailing GW as a hallmark of "design quality", well... GW's games, when they still used to publish boardgames, ran afoul of the very thing you're castigating FFG for. There were glaring holes in the rules, easy ways of exploiting various units or cards, and a frequent unwillingness to address said problems at all. I'll never forget Jervis' response to the Terminator problem in 3rd Ed. 40K, where the proliferation of plasma and other AP 2 weapons made 40-point infantry not worth their cost. His response, and I quote, was: "Learn how to use them better." This is back in the day when Deep Striking said Termies meant they scattered in a random direction and could do nothing on the turn they arrived, too. Consequently, sales of Terminators disappeared and they finally addressed the problem. They're now on their 5th or 6th rendition of 40K and the 9th version of WHFB is one that has essentially abandoned rules of any kind, so suggesting that GW is a place of solid design seems a little off to me.

This is the third time I've responded to a post like this in the past week or two, so I know you have a thing against FFG. Their games just don't sing to you. That's kool and the gang. I'm not saying you have to like them. But if your objection is the "12 page errata documents", then I think you're operating from an outdated perspective.

I don't have anything against FFG at all; some of my all-time favorite games were put out by them.

They make some good games, they make some bad games. I'm saying that they're no different than any other publisher except size.

Is there a big difference between online and MSRP in the US? or else where? In the UK, If i compare the local games stores in Leeds or Sheffield with the online retailers, the difference in price is usually somewhere around £5 on a 30-70 quid game, so buying one item it's negligible given postage is likely to be between £3-5. The difference is only really apparent if you are buying multiple items as postage does not scale that sharply. Online bargain bins can be a big saver, but that's stock that's not selling, and local game stores do that too, its just less accessible. Other than that there is the occasional game with large price disparity, but not really FFG titles.

Often in the range of 30% in the USA, yes.

This season there was more stuff deeper than 30% it seemed, especially prime . hot games.

One thing I wonder about FFG is that they've held the MSRP on all the series stuff, esp Star Wars, for almost 4 years now. And while one could argue that the initial costs ( MOLDS ) have been well amortized, I wonder if the licensing rights costs have gone up. X-Wing was out ( and thus started development ) long before the House of Mouse bought Star Wars from Lucas. The initial agreement may have expired and they might have to pay more licensing.

That could be driving the wholesale price increase.

IIRC Wizards did something similar not long ago, where they increased the wholesale and held the MSRP. I don't recall hearing about Magic players getting all hot and bothered.

Prices are now considerably higher for FFG/Asmodee titles at both CSI and MM. Rebellion jumped $10. Bummer.

ICV2 INTERVIEW: ASMODEE NORTH AMERICA CEO CHRISTIAN PETERSEN

After reading this it appears that online retailers will get there margins cut into to control online pricing, while b&m stores will have better or the same margins to level the playing field.

No MAPs.

Amazon will probably still have the same prices.

hahaha:

"Do you expect the number of online retailers to decline?
Yes."

Yeah, I am definitely getting nothing but higher prices on this one. We'll never know but intellectually it's very interesting to wonder if giving brick and mortar better trade prices and putting the screws on online retailer prices will actually improve their long run company profits like they think.

Kind of wish they had this policy years back. Perhaps that'd mean less FFG games bought be my at a discount online sitting on my shelf not doing much.

charlest wrote: Prices are now considerably higher for FFG/Asmodee titles at both CSI and MM. Rebellion jumped $10. Bummer.

Just skip a couple of coffees one week.

Gary Sax wrote: hahaha:

"Do you expect the number of online retailers to decline?
Yes."

Yeah, I am definitely getting nothing but higher prices on this one. We'll never know but intellectually it's very interesting to wonder if giving brick and mortar better trade prices and putting the screws on online retailer prices will actually improve their long run company profits like they think.

If they can get people to play their collectible games in-store, through tournament giveaways or whatever, then I think they have a good chance of improving their sales. Stronger margins may not hurt those goals much, either.

A pretty big "if", but the alternative appears to be a standoff with game stores that don't want to support something they're being undercut on.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, for all the reasons I gave above. Like Space Ghost says, ten bucks a game isn't a big deal to me. I don't like spending ten bucks more for nothing, but I lived through FFG hiking MSRP from $40 to $50 to $60 for a square box game. If they keep doubling down on Star Wars, it genuinely won't be an issue for me at all. I am uninterested in games about that property.