I'm fed up with Nazis, a rant

Navalny has no power, so Moscow is safe from fascism for now. Over 20 million Russians died in their fight against Nazism, and they don't forget that.

In less good news, actual, bona-fide Nazis, not even the low-calorie "neo" type, have been in power in Ukraine since 2014.

Thanks a lot for the comments, guys. My original post was just a rant, so I appreciate it.

Some thing I want to stress is that, for me, the most glaring problem is the complete lack of artistic need. That is, Nazis are something very extreme to add to a work of art, something that brings up awful atrocities to mind. And yet, they are used very nilly-willy, without care of what it's actually being represented.

In a sense, it's like if every third film had rape on it.

JonJacob wrote: So if you can make a serious art film about Nazism than you should be able to make jokes about it too, also poetry, songs, horror films, actions films... whatever you want. I don't like the idea of limiting creators based on my biases. It's up to them to use the material well. I'll judge the final product, not the ingredients.

Oh, no limitations on my part, just criticism.

I guess in some ways I agree with you but I'm not so willing to call a creator an 'immoral piece of shit' for using a Nazi in a film. I would need more evidence of their immorality to make that call.

Sorry, I explained myself poorly. What I mean here is not that using Nazis in a piece of art makes you an immoral piece of shit, but that if you want to be an immoral piece of shit then Nazis give you an excuse to be.

Here's an example. There are many games that take a perverse delight in suferring. You know the drill: Burning people alive with a flamethrower, cutting their throats, amputating parts of their body. The ultraviolence of the last Wolfestein, which prides itself in letting its players "punch Nazis" is a good example. And that's disgusting. No, not just disgusting. It's evil. It's evil to take a delight on that.

So many pieces of media try to justify this indulgence by making the target "deserve it". Often this takes the form of revenge fantasies or having the woman who was raped for half of the film's runtime go and kill their assailators but it's also common to just add some Nazis. This is, on the very least, artistically bankrupt.

I also feel that the implication that anyone can "deserve" this kind of acts is even worse to me than the actual act. Nobody deserves to be burned alive or amputated or any other similar act. I question the morality of any work that focuses so much on these details and makes them cool.

Also, this kind of "they deserve it" is the kind of ideology Nazis peddled. That is, the stronger wins, extreme violence is not only acceptable, but encouraged and even the smallest "collaborator" must be killed with extreme prejudice. In other words, most films with Nazis in them are as anti-Nazi as Call of Duty's was anti-war.

MattDP wrote: Everyone knows Nazis are bad, right? So nowadays, you don't even have to remind people why they're bad. They don't even have to appear particularly evil. Instead they just function as cartoon opposition: the generic villains of media, the butt of jokes, their failure guaranteed. The banality of evil, right?

This is true. Most Nazis in media are not actual Nazis. They don't follw a discernable ideology, nor act in a way that resembles treality. They are just pretty mannequins and,a such they can only tie with the "fetish" angle I mentioned earlier, not with any actual satire.

By the way, I've thought about writing about this for some time now but it's an open invitation to be harrassed at worst, misread by Reddit audiences at best.

engineer Al wrote: And yes Indiana Jones did fight Nazi’s. It was easy, but it was also cool. It was also almost four decades ago. It’s become a much more tired cliché since then.

Raiders of the Lost Ark is very different in that it has a serious religious undercurrent that informs the plot and explains the presence of Nazis.

For example, Indiana Jones is presented as a non-believer, who has oubts. In the climax he decides to postrate himself (close his eyes) before God. He admits he isn't worthy or as pwoerful. In comparison, The Nazis, who believe themselves to be Gods, are annihilated out of their own hate and hubris (Notably, they believe themselves to be superior to the Jewish God).

There are several articles on the subject, here's a brief summary:
www.indiewire.com/2015/02/indiana-jones-...haracter-arc-133065/

So Raiders is actually a very sollid portrayal of the subject:

a) Nazis are depicted as being actual Nazis, follower of a particular ideology. They are not just pretty.
b) The presence of Nazis is artistically sound and even necessary
c) Nazis are not used to excuse unsavoury elements.

The fascination/focus on Nazis generally misses the more important (and more relevant) Point for us as a society, which is that the atrocities committed in conjunction with the second World war in particular were largely driven by a relatively small number of, for want of a better Word, cunts. What's Always been more interesting and horrifying to me is´how an entire nation of people "allowed" this to happen, or more accurately, looking at the social and psychological factors in play which led to Hitler seizing Control and incrementally tearing up the whole system to put himself at the apex where he could peddle his crazy shit on a massive scale, and get enough people to follow along, through complicitness, or fear, or simply apathy. That's the danger to all of us, allowing a handful of cunts to be in charge of all of us, and more importantly, everyone going along with it (some happily, some through fear, some just not knowing or caring). If anything "the nazis" has never been a more relevant topic to keep in mind for all of us, but NOT to worry about the handful of idiots who fly the Deaths head flags and rant their crazy shit, more to be mindful of the economic and political and philosophical undercurrents leading to Waves of dissatisfaction which is then easily manipulated by the "cunt" Group until its too late. I doubt it could ever go as far as things did in those Days due to global Communication and interreliance of nations around the World, but still. The "cunts" are certainly proving to be incredibly smart in their continued ability to create and stir the shit pots of society to keep the proles distracted with their own dissatisfaction while the handful rack up their profilts and continue to subjugate the rest of us.

Bojack wrote: The fascination/focus on Nazis generally misses the more important (and more relevant) Point for us as a society, which is that the atrocities committed in conjunction with the second World war in particular were largely driven by a relatively small number of, for want of a better Word, cunts. What's Always been more interesting and horrifying to me is´how an entire nation of people "allowed" this to happen, or more accurately, looking at the social and psychological factors in play which led to Hitler seizing Control and incrementally tearing up the whole system to put himself at the apex where he could peddle his crazy shit on a massive scale, and get enough people to follow along, through complicitness, or fear, or simply apathy. That's the danger to all of us, allowing a handful of cunts to be in charge of all of us, and more importantly, everyone going along with it (some happily, some through fear, some just not knowing or caring). If anything "the nazis" has never been a more relevant topic to keep in mind for all of us, but NOT to worry about the handful of idiots who fly the Deaths head flags and rant their crazy shit, more to be mindful of the economic and political and philosophical undercurrents leading to Waves of dissatisfaction which is then easily manipulated by the "cunt" Group until its too late. I doubt it could ever go as far as things did in those Days due to global Communication and interreliance of nations around the World, but still. The "cunts" are certainly proving to be incredibly smart in their continued ability to create and stir the shit pots of society to keep the proles distracted with their own dissatisfaction while the handful rack up their profilts and continue to subjugate the rest of us.

Related:

In tracing the process by which the German people came to support Hitler to the very end, Gellately develops three phases: 1933-1938/39, the war years to 1944, and the final months of collapse. During the first phase, the Nazis carefully pursued support by playing to popular prejudices and fears. Moreover, they did not direct the terror against the German people, but rather at "outsiders" whom the public perceived as threats and social problems. The police state was built on a popular consensus.

Gellately "shows that a vast array of material on the police and the camps and various discriminatory campaigns was published in the media of the day" (p. 5). In the 1930s, the development of the concentration camps and the Gestapo, with its extraordinary powers as well as the campaigns to protect German society from degeneration were well reported in the press and held up to praise. All the victims of the regime (political opponents; persons mentally and physically "unworthy of life"; "asocials"; criminals, even of a petty sort; homosexuals; prostitutes; abortionists; vagabonds; the habitually unemployed; Sinti and Roma; pacifists; and of course, the Jews) were successfully converted in the public mind into subhuman enemies and threats to a healthy society, deserving of their fates. The camps were there to re-educate the educable without coddling, and to permanently hold the incorrigible enemies of society, who would have to earn their keep.

The Nazis celebrated the police in week-long annual festivals across the country, and proudly chalked up their many successes in the war on crime, immorality and pornography.

Source

Erik Twice wrote:

In a sense, it's like if every third film had rape on it.

So Game of Thrones, then?

I read Shirers book this year and found some real pearlers in there, like the Volkswagen scam where the nazis basically robbed the people with the promise of investing in cheap cars for everyone, but all the money was invested into preparing the war machine years before it even kicked off.

Bojack wrote: The fascination/focus on Nazis generally misses the more important (and more relevant) Point for us as a society, which is that the atrocities committed in conjunction with the second World war in particular were largely driven by a relatively small number of, for want of a better Word, cunts. What's Always been more interesting and horrifying to me is´how an entire nation of people "allowed" this to happen, or more accurately, looking at the social and psychological factors in play which led to Hitler seizing Control and incrementally tearing up the whole system to put himself at the apex where he could peddle his crazy shit on a massive scale, and get enough people to follow along, through complicitness, or fear, or simply apathy. That's the danger to all of us, allowing a handful of cunts to be in charge of all of us, and more importantly, everyone going along with it (some happily, some through fear, some just not knowing or caring). If anything "the nazis" has never been a more relevant topic to keep in mind for all of us, but NOT to worry about the handful of idiots who fly the Deaths head flags and rant their crazy shit, more to be mindful of the economic and political and philosophical undercurrents leading to Waves of dissatisfaction which is then easily manipulated by the "cunt" Group until its too late. I doubt it could ever go as far as things did in those Days due to global Communication and interreliance of nations around the World, but still. The "cunts" are certainly proving to be incredibly smart in their continued ability to create and stir the shit pots of society to keep the proles distracted with their own dissatisfaction while the handful rack up their profilts and continue to subjugate the rest of us.

I think you may believe too much of the revisionist history that has been created in the last 30 odd years of blaming the leadership and excusing the German people (so we can accept the country in the heart of the Western alliance). The German people (probably a large minority of them, maybe a majority) were racist back then - as were the Americans and the British etc ... - and had come from a bad economic place and were quite happy to blame others if their lot was improving.

Southernman wrote:

Bojack wrote: The fascination/focus on Nazis generally misses the more important (and more relevant) Point for us as a society, which is that the atrocities committed in conjunction with the second World war in particular were largely driven by a relatively small number of, for want of a better Word, cunts. What's Always been more interesting and horrifying to me is´how an entire nation of people "allowed" this to happen, or more accurately, looking at the social and psychological factors in play which led to Hitler seizing Control and incrementally tearing up the whole system to put himself at the apex where he could peddle his crazy shit on a massive scale, and get enough people to follow along, through complicitness, or fear, or simply apathy. That's the danger to all of us, allowing a handful of cunts to be in charge of all of us, and more importantly, everyone going along with it (some happily, some through fear, some just not knowing or caring). If anything "the nazis" has never been a more relevant topic to keep in mind for all of us, but NOT to worry about the handful of idiots who fly the Deaths head flags and rant their crazy shit, more to be mindful of the economic and political and philosophical undercurrents leading to Waves of dissatisfaction which is then easily manipulated by the "cunt" Group until its too late. I doubt it could ever go as far as things did in those Days due to global Communication and interreliance of nations around the World, but still. The "cunts" are certainly proving to be incredibly smart in their continued ability to create and stir the shit pots of society to keep the proles distracted with their own dissatisfaction while the handful rack up their profilts and continue to subjugate the rest of us.

I think you may believe too much of the revisionist history that has been created in the last 30 odd years of blaming the leadership and excusing the German people (so we can accept the country in the heart of the Western alliance). The German people (probably a large minority of them, maybe a majority) were racist back then - as were the Americans and the British etc ... - and had come from a bad economic place and were quite happy to blame others if their lot was improving.

That is why I included the text and link above, to Backing Hitler: Consent and Coercion in Nazi Germany , that discusses more widespread German complicity. But the whole machine was set in motion by a relatively small number of people, it would seem. The Nazis never had a >50% majority in any of the elections they won. At least, that is what I think after reading about it for fifteen minutes. Germany's Willing Executioners has been ripped apart by historians for poor methods and ascribing every single thing the Nazis ever did to anti-semitism. It still has some chilling historical excerpts. I've got to read Shirer. It has been sitting on my shelf at work and freaking out students with that Swastika for a few years now.

I've also got a copy of The Coming of the Third Reich , which, based on reviews, is probably the best of the lot for the period it covers. Also need to read.

But this snippet from the review of Hitler's Backers is a bit chilling:

"The coercion and confinement in the 1930s were neither wholesale nor entirely random, but selective and focused. As the rule of law was eliminated,...an element of arbitrariness and unpredictability crept into law and order procedures, and in so far as this happened, citizens let the dictatorship know of their displeasure.... The definition of 'enemy' (or social 'alien') grew over time, but targets of discrimination, persecution, and confinement, therefore, were not chosen by Hitler and his henchmen merely because of their own idiosyncratic prejudices and dislikes. On balance, the coercive practices, the repression, and persecution won far more support for the dictatorship than they lost." (pp. 258-59)

The chaos and elimination of the rule of law. The weakening of democracy. Ruling by executive order. Scary.