Let's Talk: 40K

Michael Barnes wrote: Now if they can stop making it all about white folks...there is at least one dark-skinned Poxwalker in the DG codex...

I really hope they don't start with a band of ex-convicts armed with chains, because that's the equivalent of "booby armor" and "battle heels" right there (BTW, although booby armor is more noticeable, I think I hate battle-heels even more... been trying to check whether the new Escher gang is on heels, they look more like platforms).

Honest question, is the current 40k lore canon that space marines are canonically ethnically white? I honestly don't know beyond they paint every marine white. Also YUCK either way.

I don't think the Salamander Chapter is ethnically eurocentric.

Well, it does actually make sense that they are white- they are descended from the gene seed of a white man and there is no human reproduction involved, no commingling with other DNA.

Salamanders are not ethnically dark skinned. They have BLACK skin, not a product of melanin at all. There are also sort of suggestions that somehow the Imperial Fists are Asiatic and the Crimson Fist are Latino.

But you would think that maybe like in the Astra Militarum there would be some dark-skinned folks. With the Xenos it doesn't matter, but AM is the only human faction so it stands to reason that there should be some ethnic diversity.

Of course there is also the supposition that all of the non-white Terrans said "fuck this in grim darkness of the future there is only war shit", absconding to another galaxy to spend the millenia living in an ascended state of peace and prosperity.

Brewmiester wrote: Has anyone looked at the Ynnari at all? Our local shop is starting an escalation league and I was looking for suggestions for a starting 500 pt force.

Don't do that. Ynnari would be a terrible choice for a escalation league unless you are allowed to morph across an allegiance. Ynnari would be barely playable at that point value as they must have one of the unique characters which would eat up 50%+ of your starting points. They would be doable if you were allowed to play as Harlequins/Dark Eldar until you can hit a point value where you can field one of the Ynnari uniques.

This also could be terrible advice because Craftworld will be getting a new codex in the next couple of weeks that could easily change the viability of the Ynnari or shift it back to Craftworld.

So, I knew this time would come. My son and I have really enjoyed AoS, but in his heart he's a sci-fi guy. Seeing all the robots and aliens and such has him wanting to check out 40k.

I'm doing my best to steer the discussion towards just Space Hulk and I think I can meet this goal. However, I did take a look at the recent 40K offerings and there looks to be 3 starter tiers now at the $160, $80, and $40 price ranges? it looks like that $80 'Know No Fear' set may be the best bang for buck (about $200 with of nurgle alone there!). But....I dunno. How complete are the rules at this level? Would we still need to seek out a 'real' rulebook?

Again, hopefully we get a Space Hulk and I house-rule some Tau...I _really_ don't want to buy into 40. :/

I think you really want to go ahead with the Dark Imperium box- you get the full hardcover book, and almost twice as many figures. The $80 (Know No Fear) and $40 sets (First Strike) are _very_ much geared toward folks who may not be sure they want to get into all of this. For example, DI gives you two 5-man Intercessor squads whereas KNF only gives you one. You also only get 10 Poxwalkers instead of 20 in it...I run 50, if that tells you anything. The "budget" kits also come with more beginner-friendly rulebooks. They also have playmats and "box as terrain" features that may not be relevant to experienced players.

Now, with that said...The First Strike set is a pretty smart add-on purchase. In it, you get 3 Plague Marines that are not in DI, you get 3 different Intercessors (add 2 more from somewhere and you have another squad), 6 new Poxwalkers and 3 Reivers, which also aren't in DI. So they sort of set this up to be a ground floor starter AND a good add-on for a DI purchaser.

The downside to these armies is that they are completely new. The upside is that they don't have a lot of models, although you can use some older stuff with them. The downside again is that the new models are punishingly expensive. Back on the upside, they are freaking incredible figures.

I think if you did get into 40k after getting into AOS...you would be pretty much done for. It's REALLY good.

Mr. White wrote: Again, hopefully we get a Space Hulk and I house-rule some Tau...I _really_ don't want to buy into 40. :/

Yeah, man, you're staring into the abyss right now...
Anyway, if I were you, I'd start with First Strike or don't muck around and just go for Dark Imperium, unless you strongly dislike SM or Death Guard. I hope you don't dislike them, though, because I'd love to see how you paint them.

I would strongly advise that if you are getting into the game right now or soonish, that you stick to armies that have codexes out. It isn't that they are messing things up- they are mostly consistent with what was already in the indexes. However, if you got into Tau, for example...you'd need to buy the Xenos 2 index and then that codex, which is likely coming in Q4. There have not been big model releases or anything corresponding to codexes, so that is not a worry. But because of the way that things like AM regiments are being set up, you might find that you want to go in a certain direction with the army. You may not be a complete psycho like me and just try to catch 'em all.

Craftworlds and Tyranids are next in line.

Back to the "no new models" thing...it is kind of unfortunate. Especially with Eldar- they are rocking some ANCIENT models at this point. Not that they aren't still cool, but man, they look old timey now. You don't notice it, like I said, until you see them next to a Death Guard or Primaris model. Some figures are pretty timeless, like Guardsmen, but I think the Tau, Eldar and Ork models are showing their age badly. There are Ork vehicles available right now that are sculpts from _1997_. I would be very tempted to go back to Orks if they did a new line.

But the winning money is on a NEW Xenos faction sometime next year...

A completely new faction? Weird.

Would be curious to see them update the Tau.

I doubt they would do something 100% new, but they have lots of existing subfactions that have had minis in other scales that could easily be spun out to a full or sub release: Exodites, Feral Orks, Corsairs, Demiurg, Kroot.

My money is on a subfaction, too.
I was toying with the idea of doing dark eldar, because barges look fantastic, but painting wyches for SW was a painful experience. You still spend a lot of time on the model, but it doesn't look nearly as good as the new sculpts in the end.
Cadians aren't going anywhere. I so hope they add some female models and more heads variety, I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

Wasn't the emperor Turkish?

The pain with the old kits, especially vehicles, is that they can be difficult to assemble. GW design techniques have grown by leaps and bounds. I mean just look at how the new Shadespire minis are assembled. No one but GW employs such difficult cuts.

Anyway, aren't the Tau kits pretty new? The kroots are the ones neglected, but the Fire Warriors and Pathfinders are post 2010 I think. They also updated some kits stealthily, such as Tyranid Warriors, Eldar Fire Prism, etc. Despite being older models, I think these factions are still very, very good aesthetically. Right now I'm debating myself whether to get a Tau or Eldar army. If I went Eldar, it'd be a full Guardian army, probably with no Wraiths or Aspects.

Sevej wrote: Wasn't the emperor Turkish?

The Emperor is the collective reincarnation of all the shamans of Neolithic humanity's various peoples, the first human psykers. The foul Warp entities that would become the four Great Powers of Chaos had not yet fully formed when the Emperor was born on Earth during prehistoric times, somewhere in ancient central Anatolia (modern Turkey) in the 8th Millennium B.C. But even before the birth of the Emperor, as humanity grew and progressed, the Warp began to become increasingly disturbed by the dark undercurrents of humanity's collective psyche, and the shamans began to lose their former ability to reincarnate into new bodies. Instead, upon dying, their souls were consumed by the entities and daemons of the Warp. Eventually the shamans of humanity, unable to reincarnate, would become extinct, and without the shamans and their psychic abilities to guide the race, humanity would inevitably fall prey to the corruptions of Chaos, just as eventually happened to the Eldar. In these ancient days, all the shamans of Earth gathered in a grand conclave to decide what must be done to stave off the day when they had all been consumed by the Warp.

I love the Tau visually. It's one of the only things that makes me want to paint/play 40k with my shaky ass hands.

edit: I'm told online that this makes me a noob because GW just made the Tau to cash in on noobs. Well fuck you too. I love how subversive their story is---they're basically the warlike federation but I think GW is making a sly point by making the federation a bunch of non-human aliens.