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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

× Talk about collectible card here.

TCG / MMO?

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09 May 2013 17:00 #151877 by Ska_baron
TCG / MMO? was created by Ska_baron
HEX www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game

It sounds awesome, but almost too much. But I guess MtG was a steep learning curve too to get really good at it.

It'll have to have a hell of a tutorial though...

Also, reminds me of SoulForge... www.kickstarter.com/projects/1965800643/...al-trading-card-game

Thoughts? Esp. Dragonstout's, Space Ghosts', other big MtG folks?

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09 May 2013 17:33 #151885 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Re: TCG / MMO?
I like it.

(NOTE: I AM A BIG MtG GUY TOO YOU INSENSITIVE JERK! Ok, I am not anymore, but I totally was.)

This has some of the concepts I wanted explored in the "card game" genre. You are not limited to the physical world for your sources of randomness anymore. You can have 7-sided dice. Cards in this game have two backs. Cards get manipulated in your deck as you play. I love this kind of thing. SOL FORGE touches it, but the game space ends up too small and the cost of entry is too high.

Cryptozoic did a great job with the PENNY ARCADE deckbuilder, teasing out some interesting concepts in that overplayed genre (cost/benefit of quarters vs. tubes, player powers, multiple game end conditions.)

Knowing that WotC is never going to get their shit in order to port actual MtG to the Mac platform, this looks like a place I'd be happy to play.

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09 May 2013 17:58 #151889 by Ska_baron
Replied by Ska_baron on topic Re: TCG / MMO?
JEB! My apologies and many man hugs in apology.

I hope there's SOME form of playing without paying as soulforge promised.

Doubt any remember, but there was a hot browser game, The Far Wilds, back a few years ago that was an amazing hex tcg and the best part was before they funked it up, you could play and earn gold by beating good folks and "buying" cards to further improve. Never spent a dime and had a blast. Sigh, really I want someone to kickstart that back up....

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09 May 2013 19:41 #151899 by dragonstout
Replied by dragonstout on topic Re: TCG / MMO?
I know you asked for my opinion, but it's probably pretty clear that I don't exactly keep an open mind about new collectible games, due to the very NATURE of collectible games encouraging you to just focus in on one or two at most, i.e. I can go as deep as I want to in Magic, so why do I want to try another? Sometimes I'll do so for the multiplayer aspect, hence my dabbling in Shadowfist and Jyhad. And in the olden CCG glut days, I dabbled in a crapton of CCGs. I like Netrunner and Dreamblade a lot and have a fine collection of them for sealed-deck play, but damned if I ever play them.

The other thing is that I believe that there are three keys to making a collectible game appealing:
1) flexibility
2) community
3) EXECUTION.

The ruleset must be flexible to allow that great, wide-open feeling that CCGs excel at. Unless you're going to do sealed-deck play only, there NEEDS to be a sizable community of people to play against; it's no fun playing constructed Magic with just one friend over and over.

But most importantly: other than the ruleset offering flexibility, EXECUTION is much much more important than the original game's design. There are a bunch of Magic clones out there, and the reason they suck and Magic doesn't is because despite having a very similar ruleset, the CARD design sucks. Magic benefits enormously from the huge amount of resources thrown at it; more hours are spent designing a single Magic set than most board games. This is my primary source of skepticism for all new CCGs: lack of polish. ESPECIALLY since the CCG format practically encourages designers to just throw whatever cool ideas they think of on a card and then print it. That is not the way to a good CCG.

Anyway, my lack of open-mindedness makes my eyes glaze over as I scroll down the kickstarter page. "Designers of the World of Warcraft CCG" is not encouraging to me, just like "designer of Ascension" wasn't encouraging to me for Solforge. I'm not interested in getting in on the ground-level on a CCG finding its feet, a process which took about a decade (arguably almost two) for Magic.

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09 May 2013 20:11 #151903 by iguanaDitty
Replied by iguanaDitty on topic Re: TCG / MMO?
Having played the SolForge beta on PC (a little too much) I am excited for where that is going.

And I disagree with dragonstout - I think my primary source of skepticism with new CCGs is boredom. WoW the CCG did (in my limited amount of play) nothing new. At all. The Spoils was very funny and way to similar to Magic to actually play.

SolForge I have enjoyed because I'm interested in the cardplay and the decisions, and they feel different than Magic.

This Hex thing I need to look into more but it sounds very cool. Both Hex and SoulForge sound like they may take to a new level the old Microprose Magic Shandalar game which was so much fun.

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10 May 2013 20:49 #151945 by iguanaDitty
Replied by iguanaDitty on topic Re: TCG / MMO?
Killing another thread! woo!

So I found a gameplay video of Hex. It is magic, with mild changes to mana. Creatures have such exciting abilities as haste and token generation. This is depressing. The only potential redeeming factor is the single player Shandalar-style gameplay. I'll wait to see how that turns out.

However, I think what is really happening is WOT:C's continued ability to completely drop the ball on digital versions of M:tG is finally catching up to them. Duels of the Planeswalkers is finally adding sealed play this year, so I might be interested again, but it's thoroughly lame otherwise.
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10 May 2013 21:06 #151948 by dragonstout
Replied by dragonstout on topic Re: TCG / MMO?
Youch. It continues to blow my mind that SO many TCGs released in Magic's wake insisted on copying so many of Magic's gameplay features, with tweaks. I don't think there's anything inherent to the TCG format that forces you to copy all that stuff, and apparently Richard Garfield didn't either, as evidenced by Jyhad & Netrunner; three more different TCGs would be hard to find, especially considering that they're all from the same designer.

It also continues to blow my mind that Wizards sucks so hard at digital. I'm a software engineer, working for them would be a dream job, lower pay be damned! I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way. So why does it seem like they have such a crappy software team? You should see the current Magic Online Beta debacle; basically, after years of the awfulness that is MTGO 3.0, they're finally releasing the next version and have been allowing people to use it...and it sucks balls and is just chock-full of game-breaking bugs.

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10 May 2013 21:17 #151949 by dragonstout
Replied by dragonstout on topic Re: TCG / MMO?
BTW, for fans of Shandalar out there: variant-format inventor extraordinaire and best writer on casual MTG ever Abe Sargent has the paper format for you:
www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=11993

I've also heard good things about the "Quest" format on Forge (a free version of Magic Online, kind of):

mtgrares.blogspot.com/2009/06/what-is-mtg-forge.html

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10 May 2013 21:30 #151950 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Re: TCG / MMO?

iguanaDitty wrote: Killing another thread! woo!

So I found a gameplay video of Hex. It is magic, with mild changes to mana. Creatures have such exciting abilities as haste and token generation. This is depressing. The only potential redeeming factor is the single player Shandalar-style gameplay. I'll wait to see how that turns out.

NOT A BUG, IS A FEATURE.

I want to play MAGIC. But because I have a Mac, I can either
  1. Get a Windows OS,
  2. Play the half-assed DUELS OF THE PLANESWALKERS games,
  3. Piss up a rope.

This sounds right up my alley then. Plus socketing, the double-backs, leveling in game and outside of game--that's some cool places to explore. I think this could be Magic++.

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10 May 2013 21:59 - 10 May 2013 22:03 #151952 by dragonstout
Replied by dragonstout on topic Re: TCG / MMO?
All I've got is a Mac, and I still play Magic Online (actually, it was the first program I installed on my Mac :-P). Bootcamp, and the rest will be discussed via PM.

Edit: But I agree that it's fucking RIDICULOUS that they haven't released it for Macs. I almost mentioned that in the previous post, but the thing is they're clearly having enough trouble already with making a quality product for Windows, and making a Mac version would be a significantly larger effort for that, so the truth is that I have zero interest in seeing what kind of abomination they'd make out of an MTGO-Mac. Not until they get their *other* shit together.
Last edit: 10 May 2013 22:03 by dragonstout.
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11 May 2013 19:19 #152043 by bioball
Replied by bioball on topic Re: TCG / MMO?
Wizard should just MtG Online over to the folks at Stainless Steel games who make the Duels product. MtG Online doesn't need as much chrome slowing the pace of the game down, but obviously Stainless Steel folks know what they are doing.

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12 May 2013 14:13 #152073 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Re: TCG / MMO?
It has always been this. They can't keep themselves from the chrome. I remember when it was the Bing video splash movie that derailed MtGO on WINE. You could actually play, but only once you figured out how to defeat that Bing video. It was a mini Shandalar!

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