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Hearthstone Players!

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22 Nov 2018 02:50 - 02 Jan 2019 17:48 #286673 by Scott Rogers
Replied by Scott Rogers on topic Hearthstone Players!
I've been playing every day for a year! It really scratches my CCG itch without filling up my house with stupid cards!

MightyBedbug#1332 - help me earn those damn "play a friend" quests!
Last edit: 02 Jan 2019 17:48 by Scott Rogers.

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07 Dec 2018 11:23 #287679 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Since jeb and I invaded the front page with our lengthy discussion over his article about Control Paladin, I figured I'd bring it back to the original thread to talk about a couple things.

I scrapped Priest. If I'm going to spend very limited time on HS, I'm just not interested in the methodical Priest playstyle anymore, despite that (control decks) being my favorite to play. So, I've reverted to having just Shaman, Paladin, and Warlock as playable classes. All of them can play either control or minion-based decks (whether aggro or midrange), which means that I can get quick games in or longer games, as I choose. (Yes, I know: But Murloc Priest is a thing now! Just wait about 5 minutes.)

Using the dust I got from scrapping all my Priest cards, I delved into...

For the longest time, my complaint about two Hearthstone mechanics, Overload and Discard, was that they were both simply too detrimental to the Shaman and Warlock player, respectively. The loss of tempo from Overload was too inhibiting in an extremely tempo-based game. Blizzard made big strides in the last couple years (with Tunnel Trogg, one could argue that they took too big of a stride) and, after several missteps (Lava Shock), finally reached a point where Overload is a workable mechanic. It generally fits only one type of deck (control withe Sapphire Spellstone) that's still not top tier, but it's workable.

Discard, OTOH, was never going to be workable. No one played Lakkari Sacrifice except on a lark; not least because the quest reward isn't overwhelming in the late game. No one played any Warlock discard cards at all unless they could be assured of either having an empty hand (Zoo with Doomguard) or getting those cards into play without paying their cost (Skull of Mana'ri, Doomguard.) They brought in Clutchmother Zavas, but she provided too little return and was only useful if she was the last card in your hand so you could be sure to toss her. They brought in Bloodqueen Lana'thel, but no one played her because you were just as likely to discard her as any other card in your hand, thus completely defeating her purpose. The problem was the root mechanic: Discard a RANDOM card (or two, in the case of Doomguard.) Compounding it is the fact that those cards still cost mana. So you spend your turn paying mana for a 4/3 and lose another card. You don't want to play any big cards in that deck, because any of them might be lost to the effect. Unlike games like MTG, there is no graveyard in HS for any class but Priest (and it took them years to figure how to make that viable.) Once the card is gone, it's gone. For years, Warlock players had two requests: Give us an option to target what card is discarded and/or give is a way to bring back cards that have been discarded.

'Lo and behold, Rumble does both... and more. Shriek and Reckless Diretroll both target the lowest cost card in your hand. No more losing your Lana'thel or Gul'dan if you have something cheaper. Scream is a control card, but Diretroll can serve control and midrange decks to save you from onrushing Dudes (or Pirates!) Soulwarden brings back up to three cards you discarded. Not just one random minion as a Deathrattle effect like Cruel(ly Never Played) Dinomancer. Three cards. Back to your hand. But the crowner, by far, is High Priestess Jeklik. Not only does she have Taunt and Lifesteal to save your bacon in a tight spot, but she's the first card in the game that you actively want to discard. I've had games in the last couple days where I've had 5 Jekliks in my hand at once. It's the first card that ever made me want to play Howlfiend as anything other than an exercise in masochism.

So I'm playing Warlock Discard:
2x Firefly
2x Fire Imp
2x Kobold Librarian
Lx Lakkari Sacrifice
2x Soul Infusion
2x Soulfire
Lx The Soularium
2x Dire Wolf Alpha
2x Vulgar Homunculus
2x Howlfiend
2x Reckless Diretroll
Lx High Priestess Jeklik
2x Saronite Chain Gang
Lx Blood Queen Lana'thel
2x Doomguard
2x Fungalmancer
2x Soulwarden

So, it's a Zoo shell (Soularium, Infusion, Firefly, Imp, Dire Wolf, Homunculus, Doomguard, Fungalmancer) wrapped around discard (Diretroll, Howlfiend, Jeklik, Lana'thel, Soulwarden.) Most similar decks that I've seen use Zavas instead of Lana'thel, but I don't own Zavas and, as noted, I've been unimpressed with her, except inasmuch as she can activate your quest in a pinch. The few games I've played have demonstrated Lana'thel's occasionally insane value (taking me from 5 life to 13 against Odd Paladin and letting me Tap into a Diretroll to seal the game, etc.) It's fun almost solely for the moments of tossing multiple Jekliks to get twice that number back in my hand. Now that I'm no longer earnestly laddering, I'm just playing for entertainment, which meant that getting my clock cleaned by a Kingsbane Pirate deck last night was hilarious. I'm there trying to do my thing and get my two Imps on the board and he's just summoning and Rushing and tossing half a dozen cannonballs. Crazy.

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07 Dec 2018 12:31 - 07 Dec 2018 12:34 #287686 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Hey, I was just testing the new Blog interface. I haven't used it in years.

I've played Discard Warlock at least five times since the Rumble, in both Quest and non-Quest form. I think the Quest form is better, or at least it was against me as Controllish builds (Paladin and Priest). I can deal with Imps, a lot of Imps, but not... infinite Imps. The value really did pay off there. The builds are very raw right now. People are still playing bad cards because they matched on *Discard* searches in the collection. Succubus is not good. That big 3/8 doofus is not good. You can get the cool effects and all that stuff to trigger without playing bad cards.

Rogue Pirates will be crazy. I am thinking about how to deal with that--they just make too much stuff. I think its doable, it's better than Quest when they made tons of dudes that had CHARGE. But it's trying.

Currently 7-2 in the Brawl with that Paladin deck mentioned on the other thread.
Last edit: 07 Dec 2018 12:34 by jeb.

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07 Dec 2018 13:11 #287689 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Yeah, there's a pretty clear dividing line between people that are aware of bad cards (like Blackguard; finally dusted mine last night for another deck) and those that aren't. No one from the beta onward has ever considered Succubus to be a good card and this was even before the dominance of 3/2s like Juggler that could 2-fer you and not by any special play of your opponent. Lakkari Felhound is the same way. 2 cards and 3 mana for a 3/8 Taunt. Awful. The only discard ever even vaguely worth 2 cards is the 5/7 charger who can end games for you and will basically have taunt, anyway, because your opponent will be desperate to remove it from the board (aka Super Taunt.) They introduced Felhound in Un'Goro with the quest and everyone still gave a collective sigh about how awful discard was and how they didn't need to be reminded with cards that were even worse than what we already had, like Felhound.
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08 Dec 2018 17:13 - 08 Dec 2018 17:14 #287759 by MacDirk Diggler
Been awhile since I have chimed in....

Made 7 win brawl 2x so far. One is an IKE hunter deck that plays the card that fills your hand with 1/1 Lynx w rush and the 0/3 that gives breasts +1/+1 as they come into play. And Sea Giant. And Unleash. And Scavenging Hyena. I think you can figure out what it tries to do. If i draw OK it blows people out turns 5-6.

The other deck I am also laddering with is my version of one Firebat showed day 1. Its Hadronox druid with Astral Tiger and Da Undataka. Undataka copies "shuffle this back into you deck" from tiger and Hadronox. So you basically end up with a deck full of Undataka at end of game and buid infinite taunt walls. This deck beats most anything but Control mage Geist/polymorp; and Kingsbane double vanish, punch you in the nuts. Tempo decks that get a nice start can rush me down if they draw better than I, but not usually.

Why are so many people still playing boring ODD Pally? I guess it's stats say it's tier 1? And its cheap to build? Odd rogue has pretty much retired. Seeing some even pirate rogues out there. This is a great time to play HS, the meta could not be more varied despite my Odd Pally complaint.

I was nervous that Artifact was going to really bite into HS. It has to a small degree and I see that several streamers I had followed have mostly moved on because playing HS for a living a few years wore them out. But they arent getting much viewership. I tried watching some Artifact and its not as watchable as HS. Ya sure, if I knew what I was watching it might help. But I think it's going to go the way of Gwent in the long run.

If you guys have weighed in on Artifact I missed it. What say you?
Last edit: 08 Dec 2018 17:14 by MacDirk Diggler.
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09 Dec 2018 10:48 #287793 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Haven't played it (and out of town, at the moment, so no real accesa.) Most of my time is being spent trying to get people to play the cardboard stuff.

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09 Dec 2018 14:36 - 09 Dec 2018 14:44 #287801 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!

MacDirk Diggler wrote: I was nervous that Artifact was going to really bite into HS. It has to a small degree and I see that several streamers I had followed have mostly moved on because playing HS for a living a few years wore them out. But they arent getting much viewership. I tried watching some Artifact and its not as watchable as HS. Ya sure, if I knew what I was watching it might help. But I think it's going to go the way of Gwent in the long run.

If you guys have weighed in on Artifact I missed it. What say you?

I wouldn't mind ARTIFACT biting into HEARTHSTONE. Clear out some spikes would do me fine. But I haven't done a thing with ARTIFACT. I barely know what it is. I am just not a Valve guy I guess. Everything just seems sliiiightly off with them. I know there are lanes and all that MOBA shit. Dive in, NappyD, let us know how it is. Mobile is a big deal for me, though, so not having it seems bad.

I like ELDER SCROLLS: LEGENDS somewhat. Not enough to learn, farm, and be good at it though.

ASCENSION still gets played a little bit.

MAGIC still looks slow. I am worried it's slow. Maybe the game is just slow.

GWENT, please. That was barely a game.
Last edit: 09 Dec 2018 14:44 by jeb.

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10 Dec 2018 04:56 - 10 Dec 2018 04:57 #287831 by Matt Thrower
Replied by Matt Thrower on topic Hearthstone Players!
I know it's not even a week yet, but so far I'm pretty unimpressed with this expansion. Although there are a lot of decks in circulation, it's done nothing to change the essential feel of the game. It still seems heavily defensive, favouring long-term value generation above all else.

My view might be skewed by the fact I'm trying not to play Warlock and Paladin since I went gold with them, and they look to be two of the more interesting classes right now. But then again they were two of the more interesting classes before the expansion and we might have expected that to change.

The classes I want to play (the next ones closest to gold) are Shaman and Warrior and I'm not liking the builds so far. Dragon Warrior is just Odd Warrior with different cards: the game plan is exactly the same and it's boring as hell. Aggro Shaman is, I reckon, shit. Maybe I've not grasped how to play it properly but the build seems hugely vulnerable to AoE, direct damage and Taunt walls. Almost any deck running any of those three can beat it easily.

Will reassess when the meta settles. But right now I'm playing for quests only.
Last edit: 10 Dec 2018 04:57 by Matt Thrower.

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10 Dec 2018 15:48 #287861 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
I hoard Gold, then spend it all on packs and open them. Then in those next few weeks after the launch, I keep buying packs until I get another Legendary, then I start hoarding again. Last set it was like 20 packs deep, but here it was just three of four, so I'm hurting for some Rares/Epics here. I have probably 3600 Dust to spend, so we'll see how things shake out.

I have tumbled back to Rank 20 through a combination of not being good, not playing good decks, and not giving a shit. It's a little weird down here. I went on a streak with Murloc Priest (I had two Murloc Quests). I lose constantly with nice Savvy Builds® from all the Top Streams.®

I think things have opened up a little, at least at first glance. The new Hunter Hero is making a splash, that card is GOOD. It's so good it's probably a mistake. I guess we are lucky that Hunter has pretty shitty spells? But man, it just rocks with a Deadly Shot and a 3-or-4 Wolf Emerald Spellstone. I don't know if you need more than that. (I see folks playing To My Side! again. Just.. don't. Don't do that. It is bad. It didn't become good. Cf: Succubus.)

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11 Dec 2018 14:04 #287920 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
As much as Jackwraith and I banter here, we also chat in the HEARTHSTONE client itself. Yesterday we talked about Warlock, and the themes Blizzard seems to be pushing for them. For the most part, it looks like they want folks to play Demons and discard cards. I'll leave discard to others--I hate losing cards and even though Doomguard is awesome I am generically uncomfortable throwing cards away in this game. That said, there's obviously the themes of masochism-for-gain throughout, and that's where I want to spend some time. One idea Blizzard dangles for Warlock is Sacrifice, i.e., intentionally binning creatures for gain. And there are creatures that LOVE to get binned: Deathrattle creatures. And the best ones to bin in that regard are Eggs. They suck on the board. They are 0/x garbage dudes. But the DRs make for undercosted attackers. Devilsaur Egg makes a 5/5 for 3. Scarab Egg makes 3 1/1's for 2. If you can couple Eggs with Buffs like Prince Keleseth you have efficient sticky minions. Or, you can buff them with board effects like Defender of Argus, you set up awkward turns for opponents, where doing anything seems bad.

Warlock has several unique tools to exploit Eggs, and a solid Zoo deck takes advantage:
  • Grim Rally (Rare Wlo Spell for 1) : Destroy a friendly creature. Give your minions +1/+1.
  • Soul Infusion (Rare Wlo Spell for 2) : Give the left-most minion in your hand +2/+2.
  • Spirit of the Bat (Rare Wlo 0/3 for 2) : Stealth for 1 Turn. After a friendly minion dies, give a minion in your hand +1/+1.
  • Ravenous Pterrordax (Common Wlo 4/4 for 4) : Battlecry: Destroy a friendly minion to Adapt twice.

You can buff the Eggs in hand, you can sacrifice the Eggs for Buffs to your board and hand, you can tune a Pterrordax to suit the game and get a 5/5 out of it--all kinds of options. Add in Fungalmancer and the twins (Saronite Chain Gang and Doubling Imp) and you can recover very quickly from AoE clears. Everything Zoo is looking for, and you can pile on cheap Taunts like Voidwalker and Vulgar Homunculus to keep Aggro at bay while you explode.

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11 Dec 2018 16:08 - 11 Dec 2018 16:09 #287927 by MacDirk Diggler
Zalae has a new deck you can find ez on YouTube with explanation how to play it. That is good hybrid of Cubelock with discard (without cubes tho) He runs the good discard cards and plays for tempo on the board without any fear of discarding Guldan. Because they made the card that puts 3 discards back in your hand. That is the card I have been waiting for forever. A way to get your lost resources back. The quest still kinda sucks. It’s not in his deck.

Last half of the video is him playing his 12th win game of brawliseum that deck.

Have not tried it yet.
Last edit: 11 Dec 2018 16:09 by MacDirk Diggler.
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11 Dec 2018 17:57 #287938 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Yes, Soulwarden is the shit for discard. Sooooo good. Not least when you play it to bring back two Jekliks that you've discarded and then discard her again. Again, this and Reckless Diretroll are what people have been asking for forever: some way to control what gets discarded and some way to retrieve what gets discarded. It's actually a viable mechanic now.

Tried a couple practice games with a deck based around Immortal Prelate. It can get pretty stupid if your opponent doesn't have any silence.

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11 Dec 2018 21:37 #287948 by Space Ghost
Replied by Space Ghost on topic Hearthstone Players!
I skipped completely out on the last set because I just didn't find it interesting -- as such I have fallen down into the bowels of the rankings since the last time I played was probably early August.

I'm sure I mentioned it, but my favorite three classes, in order are: Warlock, Mage, Priest -- with a very strong preference for the first two (and an even stronger preference for Warlock). I had a decent discard deck that I had going for a while with Cataclysm and the Imp that let you draw -- got it up to around level 9. The quest is just one of those cards that you really want to work, and when it does it is really effective -- but half the time it is worthless. So, I too was excited when I saw the new discard cards.

I took the shell of my cubelock/even warlock and put in discards and got this out:

2 Kobold Librarians
2 Shrieks
2 Soulfire
1 Acidic Ooze
2 Defile
2 Doomsayer
L Prince Taldaram
2 Hellfire
L High Priestess Jeklik
2 Lesser Amethyst Spellstone
1 Spellbreaker
L Blood-Queen Lana'thel
2 Doomguard
L skull of the Man'ari
2 Soulwarden
L Lord Godfrey
2 Voidlord
L Bloodreaver Gul'dan
2 Mountain Giant

I went on a winning streak from the basement to rank 18 without losing. I had started with 2 Reckless Diretroll, Lakkari Sacrifice and 2 Siphon Soul, and when I lost I took out Sacrifice for Acidic Ooze and the Diretrolls for the Defiles. The Siphon Souls came out for Doomsayers. The Diretrolls are a pain to work around and can't keep up with aggro. I ran into so many weapons that I needed some removal. Since the swap, I have been undefeated and am at 15.2 now. It seems to be a solid deck so far and the switch moves it more into control range and the Nether Portal was just feeling like an add on. I had Cataclysm in it for a bit, it was amusing to get the Quest on turn 3....but definitely doesn't feel like it seals the deal.

Random thoughts:

- The new Hunter Hero is absurd.
- I have been copying Immortal Prelate with the Prince.
- Soulwarden and the Skull are the stars of this deck.

So far, I have only lost to the new Hunter Hero.
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14 Dec 2018 10:19 #288140 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Not surprised at all that the latest Vicious Syndicate report says that Rastakhan's Rumble is basically the polar opposite of Kobolds and Catacombs when it comes to card strength. Their assertion is that if you want to ladder or you've been successful with any decks that were successful prior to RR, keep doing that. None of the new cards should be included in Taunt Druid, Odd Paladin, Even Paladin, anything Warlock, or basically any class. The lone exception is Hunter, where adding Zul'jin is a given and which has catapulted Hunter right to the top of the stack. Every other class is in a situation where Rumble cards are actually detrimental to laddering success. I've had mild experience with this in that I played a few games to finish a couple quests and used my Odd Paladin deck to do so. I didn't know what to add, if anything, from Rumble so I just stuck with the model that I'd used since before Boomsday. It rolled through everything.

It's the most opinionated VS report I've seen in a long time. They're actually hostile toward the new set, not only because it didn't enhance any existing archetypes, but also because it utterly failed to introduce any new ones. The most notable example is Shaman, where it did nothing for Shudderwock and also didn't create anything else, despite a number of new cards clearly aimed at doing something (just like Knights. Again.) The exceptions may be Priest, in which a revival of Dragon Priest seems possible, and Rogue, where Kingsbane/Pirate stuff seems strong. But they're not convinced. Again, it's the opposite of Kobolds, which utterly colored the months leading up to rotation and still does so even now. But the real problem may be Witchwood and the introduction of Baku and Genn, which may be restraining overall design because of their omnipresence (odd and even cards.) Witchwood also does not rotate out in April, so the problem is here to stay for some time.
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14 Dec 2018 11:10 #288143 by Matt Thrower
Replied by Matt Thrower on topic Hearthstone Players!

Jackwraith wrote: None of the new cards should be included in Taunt Druid, Odd Paladin, Even Paladin, anything Warlock, or basically any class. The lone exception is Hunter, where adding Zul'jin is a given and which has catapulted Hunter right to the top of the stack.


This is not strictly true. Kingsbane Rogue is another exception where Raiding Party has pushed it into tier 1, but that's about it. Also, few fringe decks like Rush Hunter and Odd Mage have become a bit more viable than they were.

Not going to argue with the general thrust of the report, though. First DK's, then Genn and Baku, totally warped the meta out of shape.

Game feels very tired. But I'll still be playing it for the foreseeable future because it's my go-to bit of bite-sized strategy. It's so familiar now that it's almost a comforting distraction.

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