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Wild Wild Country (Netflix docu)
I've been watching a different Netflix documentary, Wild Wild Country. It's about a religious group/cult (the Rajnesshis) that built a compound and took over a small town in Oregon in the 80s. It's really fascinating stuff, and I had never heard of any of this so everything is surprising.
It's six hour-long episodes, of which I've only seen the first three. The filmmakers do a great job of being impartial (not making the Rajneeshis look like total loons, not making the townsfolk look like total hicks), and yet they manage to make both groups look alternatively evil and sympathetic. The story is full of twists and turns.
One thing that really bothers me, though, is that several times per episode there's a jarring jump cut with a blare of sound that is physically jolting. A couple of them are done for shock-effect, but I think most of them are there just to yank the chain of the viewer (i.e. totally unnecessary). It's almost comedic in that if I've been watching sedately for at least 30 minutes, I know to prepare myself for a blast of sound.
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- ChristopherMD
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I've read the article series that apparently inspired the documentary. Lots of interesting and creepy stuff.
longform.org/posts/rajneeshees-from-india-to-oregon-parts-1-20
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It is hard to judge whether if they had been left alone whether all the problems would have happened. Were they just 'protecting themselves' in extreme ways or would bad shit have happened regardless as there were a few nutters in the leadership team.
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Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: My main issue with the series is that you don't get a good sense of the Rajneeshi belief system, but I still think that it was a very enjoyable watch.
That's unfortunate because that sort of context is half the fun in documentaries like this.
I don't mean to derail the thread, but the description of this documentary reminded me of the "Prophets of Doom" episode of Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast. It's about how, after the Protestant Reformation, the German town of Munster was taken over by a heretical christian sect. Carlin always delves deeply into historical context - this episode is no exception - and he's amazingly even-handed in general when one considers the political baggage that comes with most of his topics.
Anyway, if you liked this doc then you'll almost certainly like "Prophets of Doom." It's $1.99 on the Hardcore History site and at 4 hrs. 15 min. long it's well worth the money.
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- san il defanso
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SebastianBludd wrote:
Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: My main issue with the series is that you don't get a good sense of the Rajneeshi belief system, but I still think that it was a very enjoyable watch.
That's unfortunate because that sort of context is half the fun in documentaries like this.
I don't mean to derail the thread, but the description of this documentary reminded me of the "Prophets of Doom" episode of Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast. It's about how, after the Protestant Reformation, the German town of Munster was taken over by a heretical christian sect. Carlin always delves deeply into historical context - this episode is no exception - and he's amazingly even-handed in general when one considers the political baggage that comes with most of his topics.
Anyway, if you liked this doc then you'll almost certainly like "Prophets of Doom." It's $1.99 on the Hardcore History site and at 4 hrs. 15 min. long it's well worth the money.
Both Prophets of Doom and Wild Wild Country get my recommendation. Both do a great job of showing how slippery the path to extremism can be sometimes.
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- Colorcrayons
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Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: My main issue with the series is that you don't get a good sense of the Rajneeshi belief system, but I still think that it was a very enjoyable watch.
It is hard to judge whether if they had been left alone whether all the problems would have happened. Were they just 'protecting themselves' in extreme ways or would bad shit have happened regardless as there were a few nutters in the leadership team.
I grew up in southern Oregon during this era, and am deeply acquainted with not only the outsiders who seethed at these hippies, but with the Rajneeshis themselves after disbanding and scattering among the temperate jungle of Oregon.
I believe that they certainly would have had less problems had the populace not spat epithets at them and did their best to be anything but welcoming towards these new Interlopers.
But I also believe that the end result was inevitable. We had a libertarian Utopia trying to function, and ultimately left out a lot of the humanity necessary for such a communal structure to not only succeed but to flourish.
There was a similar issue with Sung Yun Moon as well, if some recall. The followers have everything to the leader because they wanted him to have it, yet their own needs ultimately were left unrealized.
A large need to keep the money coming in required that a growing control of government was necessary, and Oregon's odd and unique brand of conservative liberals cannot stand for that consumption.
And Oregon is full of odd ball religious sects, yet they all somehow manage to coexist where Rajneeshpuram could not. I think the Bagwan had a lot of sublime ideas, but the lack of success rests mostly on his shoulders.
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Colorcrayons wrote:
Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: My main issue with the series is that you don't get a good sense of the Rajneeshi belief system, but I still think that it was a very enjoyable watch.
It is hard to judge whether if they had been left alone whether all the problems would have happened. Were they just 'protecting themselves' in extreme ways or would bad shit have happened regardless as there were a few nutters in the leadership team.
I grew up in southern Oregon during this era, and am deeply acquainted with not only the outsiders who seethed at these hippies, but with the Rajneeshis themselves after disbanding and scattering among the temperate jungle of Oregon.
I believe that they certainly would have had less problems had the populace not spat epithets at them and did their best to be anything but welcoming towards these new Interlopers.
But I also believe that the end result was inevitable. We had a libertarian Utopia trying to function, and ultimately left out a lot of the humanity necessary for such a communal structure to not only succeed but to flourish.
There was a similar issue with Sung Yun Moon as well, if some recall. The followers have everything to the leader because they wanted him to have it, yet their own needs ultimately were left unrealized.
A large need to keep the money coming in required that a growing control of government was necessary, and Oregon's odd and unique brand of conservative liberals cannot stand for that consumption.
And Oregon is full of odd ball religious sects, yet they all somehow manage to coexist where Rajneeshpuram could not. I think the Bagwan had a lot of sublime ideas, but the lack of success rests mostly on his shoulders.
That and Antelope is terrible. I grew up in Wasco county (though I would have been a toddler at the very end of the insanity). Growing up I do not recall there being much lingering animosity among people I was acquainted with. My uncle was one of the people hospitalized by the Salmonella poisonings and he had nothing negative to say about it. The county courthouse has a pronghorn antelope statue as one of the only lingering reminders of it. I'm sure Antelope itself probably has something, but as I noted, it's terrible.
The only definite complaint I can remember is the owner of one of the targeted restaurants blaming the attack for forcing him out of business. Considering they stayed open until 2000, I kind of doubt that was an actual reason.
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- Colorcrayons
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Keep in mind this was during a period of peak paranoia during the cold war. So even when there wasnt a good reason to be afraid, the 'communistic' hippies had a lot of people's defense mechanisms on defcon 4.
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Luckily Bloom County was there to keep me informed. "Bhagwan Bill" was about a week's worth of story arc, beginning here:
Bhagwan Bill
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It was structured in an I think ultimately effective way but not "realistic." Basically, the first 3 episodes are structured with very little information about the cult. The reason was to present the legal, political and religious issues presented by the cult. So it asks you, mostly divorced of information about the detailed in-dealings of the cult, to think about the way the people are treated. Take something as simple, for example, as the cult moving into a community of 40 people and outvoting them. It *is* democratic. The voter suppression of them is kind of bullshit, as well, and the reasons for doing so tend to be weak and ultimately religiously motivated. Even their abhorrent stunt of bringing in street people for voters is legal. Moreover, *one could imagine a religion* that cared about street people and wanted to feed them, take care of them etc and they might (probably would) meet the same reaction for doing so. Etc etc. The cult lawyer is the center of this---the issues he brings up, before you know anything about the leadership, etc about the cult itself, are extremely interesting. I grew up in a relatively rural college town and my wife grew up in straight rural Nebraska, ranched, etc. She was watching this and was like "I know these types of people and they're all terrible, intolerant, and hypocritical in precisely this way. This is exactly how my family would react but not for any good reason." If you have friends or family like this in rural white america, for example, they are OBSESSED with religious freedom, local self-determination, and property rights. They will not shut up about them. But watch how instantly people like this turn back on everything they believe in when presented with the Other.
Of course, then they break it all open in late episode 3 through 6. The cult is obviously not Good. They are engaged in nefarious activities, money laundering, etc. But again, I liked that they kept this from us slightly in the first few episodes to get us thinking about the more serious issues of citizenship, belonging and religious freedom that such a religion *could* bring up. Again, so many of their activities one could imagine a genuine new religion doing that didn't blend up beavers and put them in the water supply. So that's what it wants you to think about. Then it drops all the details in the later episode about them, which washes away many of the more fascinating and theoretical issues because of their pretty abhorrent behavior and leadership.
I appreciated them setting the series up to have you consider the issues, though, even if it's done in a relatively manipulative way.
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Forgetting for a second that these are real people, Ma Anand Sheela is probably the most interesting character I've seen on TV since I can't remember when.
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