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RIP Harlan Ellison 1934-2018

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29 Jun 2018 10:19 #276560 by Shellhead
Harlan Ellison was an asshole. He was also a talented and prolific writer who fought passionately for a variety of good causes. He once wrote a short story called Croatoan that managed to offend both pro-life and pro-choice people. He spent his whole life as a rebel and a gadfly and a jester, and I have no doubt that he did some reprehensible things along the way. On the balance, I am glad that he lived, and that I was able to read so much of his work.
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29 Jun 2018 18:28 #276609 by Ancient_of_MuMu
I always hated him for how he sued anyone for having an idea remotely like anything that he had written. Never warmed to him in the slightest as being good doesn't excuse being an asshole.

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29 Jun 2018 21:19 #276613 by Michael Barnes
I certainly wouldn’t say I admire Ellison as a great human being. He wasn’t. He was petty, insufferable, intolerant, loutish, disrespectful, and almost cartoonishly arrogant. But that is al part of what makes him a compelling, singular writer.

I don’t think anyone would lionize the man as they do the work.
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30 Jun 2018 08:47 - 30 Jun 2018 08:48 #276625 by Josh Look

Michael Barnes wrote: I certainly wouldn’t say I admire Ellison as a great human being. He wasn’t. He was petty, insufferable, intolerant, loutish, disrespectful, and almost cartoonishly arrogant. But that is al part of what makes him a compelling, singular writer.

I don’t think anyone would lionize the man as they do the work.


I think he was a case where it was hard to determine where the work ends and the man begins. So much of the man is clearly in the work. Go back and watch those “Watching” segments from Sci-Fi, they’re brilliant and it’s all work backing up the man. He was an extreme and I wouldn’t be surprised if he saw himself as a piece of longform performance art. Not that that’s meant to rationalize or dismiss his less than admirable behavior, but as you said, it’s compelling and, if recent events has told us anything, effective. I would never go as far as throwing a typewriter at a publisher, but the ideals buried in all that extreme behavior *are* often admirable. An artist being paid fairly for their work, a writer’s original intent not being tampered with, taking credit for your accomplishments and not attributing your success to the divine will of some imaginary sky bully, and expecting more out of people because you know people are capable greater things are all things I can get behind. I wouldn’t know, but given that it made such a lasting impression on me, maybe he felt the extreme presentation of his ideals necessary.

That being said, chasing after anyone who repurposed a kernel of your ideas and a terrible treatment of women, that I have no respect for nor do I feel he or anyone ever earns the right to do so.
Last edit: 30 Jun 2018 08:48 by Josh Look.
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30 Jun 2018 11:31 #276631 by Michael Barnes
Well, it’s like I always say- if you go back to itemize and analyze all of the crappy behavior of artists, creators, and writers and expect to find that they consistently uphold either your personal values or the commonly agreed upon standards of decency...you are in for a a very severe disappointment.

There is no excusing some of the more transgressive or even abusive behavior...but I also think that we have got to acknowledge that our writers and makers are- like us- fundamentally flawed and broken human beings. It is of course a problem when there is exploitation and victimization involved, and I think that bears scrutiny...but by the same token, no matter what Polanski did or does, Rosemary’s Baby and Chinatown are still masterpieces. The Weinstein name on a film does not suddenly foreclose on its artistic or cultural value.

So you read Ellison knowing how he is as a person, where he stands (which was NEVER in doubt) and you take in all of the good and bad and you know what, that may be one of the things that distinguishes a good writer from a great writer- that complex, polarized matrix of inputs and outputs.
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30 Jun 2018 20:40 - 30 Jun 2018 20:41 #276641 by Cranberries

engineer Al wrote:

Josh Look wrote:

Black Barney wrote: Which Trek episode did he do?


City On the Edge of Forever.


I watched this somewhat recently. I remember walking away thinking "This is the greatest piece of Science Fiction ever made."

RIP

Netflix
Last edit: 30 Jun 2018 20:41 by Cranberries.

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30 Jun 2018 21:54 - 30 Jun 2018 21:54 #276643 by Cranberries

Josh Look wrote:

Michael Barnes wrote: I certainly wouldn’t say I admire Ellison as a great human being. He wasn’t. He was petty, insufferable, intolerant, loutish, disrespectful, and almost cartoonishly arrogant. But that is al part of what makes him a compelling, singular writer.

I don’t think anyone would lionize the man as they do the work.


He was an extreme and I wouldn’t be surprised if he saw himself as a piece of longform performance art.






When I'm gone, that's it. What's down on the paper, it says 'The End,' that's it. 'Cause right now I'm busy writing the end of the longest story I've ever written, which is me.

-- Harlan Ellison
Last edit: 30 Jun 2018 21:54 by Cranberries.

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