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Favorite or Best?

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28 Oct 2015 10:31 - 28 Oct 2015 10:31 #213552 by Chapel
Replied by Chapel on topic Favorite or Best?

jeb wrote:
@Chapel, the BGG obsession with filler games is well known. How else can 7 WONDERS make to the top?


Definitely, now so more than ever. The rankings used to be a lot more meaty several years ago. It has evolved quite a bit over the years, not to my tastes. I blame Vasal.
Last edit: 28 Oct 2015 10:31 by Chapel.

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28 Oct 2015 12:00 #213564 by quozl
Replied by quozl on topic Favorite or Best?
Not only do I not care about what is the best instead of favorite, I am incredulous that any non-omniscient person can objectively say what best is.

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28 Oct 2015 12:47 - 28 Oct 2015 12:48 #213569 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Favorite or Best?

Black Barney wrote: For instance, the movie Pixels, we all know that's trash. We don't have to see it.


Sure we do. If not we're just depending on the tastemakers to tell us what we like. There's a difference between "I've heard it's bad" and "it's bad." The minute you start using the latter when you have no personal experience on the subject you throw your credibility away. "Didn't see it" is a much better response.

I'm due to watch Pixels with the family on Friday night by the way. They loved it when they saw it in the theater.

S.
Last edit: 28 Oct 2015 12:48 by Sagrilarus.
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28 Oct 2015 13:23 #213572 by Jexik
Replied by Jexik on topic Favorite or Best?
Codenames is a great game. It allows for a lot of creative thought and creates a lot of tension in a short time with a very limited set of rules. Most game designers that I've played it with or talked to about it have been very impressed (and jealous). Then again, I'm perfectly happy to play the same "filler" all night, provided that it's one that I like.

It seems like best is just the collective favorite of critics.

So what's the best Final Fantasy game? 7 is a lot of people's favorite, but I thought it sucked because the characters felt too similar and the plot was boring after the first 5 hours. If people make a list of the top 100 games in some magazine, I imagine that 7 is the most likely to be in that list. My favorite was 4, but I think the consensus is... that 6 is the best? I liked Chrono Trigger and Xenogears better than any of them. I don't think I could sit through Xenogears now though.

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28 Oct 2015 13:25 - 28 Oct 2015 13:25 #213573 by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Favorite or Best?
I dunno Sag, I think life experience can give us intuition on what we like and won't like. I know if there's some sort of new dish that includes a lot of blue cheese, goat cheese or fesces, I won't like it. I don't have to try it.

For me, that's like Pixels. I look at the ingredients of that movie and see a few shots of the finished product and it's a "nope" for me.

When I say "that's trash" about something subjective like a movie, it should be obvious that I mean "that's trash to me" since no one can speak objectively about something art or what is personal taste.

I would hate for common sense to leave normal conversation to the point that you have to pull 'safeties" like that in your normal speech. Political correctness is bad enough, but this would be just way too much.

Hope you enjoy Pixels. I bet you won't.
Last edit: 28 Oct 2015 13:25 by Black Barney.

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28 Oct 2015 13:49 #213578 by SuperflyPete
Replied by SuperflyPete on topic Favorite or Best?
It's very hard for some people to be objective about things. I can see why many people see "best = their favorite" and have trouble seeing things as they are, not just as they wish them to be. That's part of the reason there's so few really good reviewers out there, although it's getting better. With the internet being the internet, it's getting even harder to put yourself in others' shoes.

I think the key to the best/favorite conundrum is to simply remember that if someone says anything on the internet about anything, tack on "in my opinion". It's not like any of us are spouting objective "truths", especially about such a subjective field of interest. It's not easy with anything, but especially on entertainment stuff. For example: My wife loves Jerry Springer's and Steve Wilkos' shows. I cannot stand them; I think they are horrible, exploitative shows. She thinks they're some of the best, I think they're definitely some of the worst.

Who's right? If you base it off of Nielsen ratings (which, incidentally, are better than BGG ratings in many ways) or "overall entertainment value", then she is closer to right than I am. I have to admit, seeing two trailer trash sisters pull off each others' wigs is certainly entertaining. If you base them off of cultural value or quality of show design, however, they are both horribly derivative, have no artistic value, and add nothing to culture other than displaying stupidity. So, I'd be right.

Thus, there is no "Objective Best", and cannot really be, because the beauty and utility of anything is wholly subjective.
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28 Oct 2015 14:21 - 28 Oct 2015 14:23 #213587 by RobertB
Replied by RobertB on topic Favorite or Best?
I think Vistula hit the nail on the head a few messages ago. What I like the most, and what the world thinks is the 'best' are usually two completely different things. Who is/was the best rock band? The Beatles would be a pretty good consensus choice. Hits, songwriting, innovation, they were monsters back in their day. Who do I like the best? I was seriously giving thought to scrounging up enough cash for a trip to see Black Sabbath when they come back to North America. I'm not stupid enough to think that Black Sabbath is the best rock band EVAR, or at least not since I was 18 or so.
Last edit: 28 Oct 2015 14:23 by RobertB.

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28 Oct 2015 14:55 #213594 by Legomancer
Replied by Legomancer on topic Favorite or Best?

sagrilarus wrote:

Black Barney wrote: For instance, the movie Pixels, we all know that's trash. We don't have to see it.


Sure we do. If not we're just depending on the tastemakers to tell us what we like. There's a difference between "I've heard it's bad" and "it's bad." The minute you start using the latter when you have no personal experience on the subject you throw your credibility away. "Didn't see it" is a much better response.

I'm due to watch Pixels with the family on Friday night by the way. They loved it when they saw it in the theater.

S.


"Don't drink that milk, it's gone bad."

"SCREW YOU, YOU DON'T DECIDE MY TASTE!" *drinks milk*

"I told you it was bad!"

"I ONLY DRANK ONE SIP! I CAN'T REALLY FORM AN OPINION UNTIL I DRINK THE ENTIRE THING!"
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28 Oct 2015 15:30 #213597 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Favorite or Best?

Black Barney wrote: For me, that's like Pixels. I look at the ingredients of that movie and see a few shots of the finished product and it's a "nope" for me.


That's a whole different statement from "we all know that's trash."

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28 Oct 2015 16:05 #213598 by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Favorite or Best?
for me, they're the same but that's just cuz of the binary way I view things and speak. For me, it's implied that I don't presume that i speak for the entire planet when I say a movie looks like (or is) trash.

Looking forward to an update on what you think of that movie.

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28 Oct 2015 16:29 #213605 by san il defanso
Replied by san il defanso on topic Favorite or Best?
A weird flip-side version of the best-vs-favorite debate I see on BGG is people who are incredulous that someone would ever enjoy a game that isn't highly-ranked. Actually, in truth this happens more on reddit, since those gamers tend to be a lot younger and a lot more tied to group consensus. It is unfathomable that someone would like a game against conventional wisdom.

I was thinking recently about how much this hobby has grown lately. When you're a bunch of krusty old gamers like we are, it's easy to miss that board gaming has exploded over the last few years. That's probably why Essen buzz seems to be revolving around lighter games. The percentage of new gamers is way higher than it's been for a long time.

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22 Nov 2015 12:05 #215620 by SuperFlySwatter
Replied by SuperFlySwatter on topic Favorite or Best?
At the risk of being contrarian I'd like to stand up a little bit for the guy who I think might have a more honest point. Theres nothing wrong with equating your favourite or best, and many times it feels like people are just too chicken, and just too concerned with what other people think to say this is my favourite, so its one of the best. Like they're a bit ashamed to like something that somehow doesnt fit someone elses definition of "great". Who is deciding whats great/best? I get the idea of people with experience and education in a subject matter, don't get me wrong, but using art sort of illustrates the fickleness of the whole concept. No two "experts" on film, or literature, or music, or art will have the same things on their top ten lists, that should tell you theres all kinds of factors that define what great is. Sure, no one is going to tell me that 2001 isn't a better/greater film than Big Trouble in Little China but whats the point of forcing that on someone who loves the latter but not the former. What is the utility of claiming the various reasons why 2001 is a cinematic masterpiece. Especially to the guy who likes Kurt Russell and lightning throwing mandarin devils. Who says cinematography is important, or more important than any other factor? If you start talking about great, you directly beg the question, great at what? great plot? great acting? great atmosphere, great score, great visuals, great technical specs, great "impact on culture".

Oh, I understand the points people are trying to make but part of me couldnt help but have a wry smile at the guy who was incredulous that there was any meaning outside his own, honest, personal top ten. Maybe thats just me getting older.
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23 Nov 2015 14:42 #215750 by quozl
Replied by quozl on topic Favorite or Best?
Dude, Big Trouble in Little China is a way better film than 2001.
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23 Nov 2015 15:39 - 23 Nov 2015 15:39 #215767 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Favorite or Best?

San Il Defanso wrote: A weird flip-side version of the best-vs-favorite debate I see on BGG is people who are incredulous that someone would ever enjoy a game that isn't highly-ranked.


There's a guy on this web site that does this exact thing week after week, month after month. It happens everywhere.
Last edit: 23 Nov 2015 15:39 by Sagrilarus.
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