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Color Blindness and Board Games
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07 Jan 2009 11:27 #16189
by Shellhead
Color Blindness and Board Games was created by Shellhead
I was thinking about color while playing the FFG edition of Cosmic Encounter recently. It's almost unavoidable, as color is in embedded in the game mechanics. Anyway, it's been bugging me that this might have been published as a six-player game, and then I got to wondering what color would be used for the sixth color. Right now, there is red, green, blue, purple and yellow. Orange would be a poor choice, because it seems like a lot of people that I know have trouble telling the difference between red and orange unless they are side-by-side.
Taking that thought farther... genetically speaking, men are more likely to have some degree of color blindness than women, and even men who aren't technically color blind seem to have trouble distinguishing between red and orange for example. I don't think that it's just a vocabulary issue either... I mean I'm not talking about knowing the difference between chartreuse and yellow.
One time, a friend and I were walking to a pizza place a few blocks from his apartment, in the winter time. He was wearing this turquoise-colored ski jacket, and I made some comment about it. He looked at me blankly and said, you mean this green jacket? We had a brief disagreement about the color, and then I asked the next ten people that we passed "Is my friend's jacket green or turquoise?" All five women and three of the five men said "turquoise." The other two guys said "green."
Anyway, given that men are more likely to have some degree of color blindness, and men are also more likely to be play boardgames, are there any games that you've played where the colors of the board or the pieces have caused problems? And have you ever played any games with someone who had serious color blindness?
Taking that thought farther... genetically speaking, men are more likely to have some degree of color blindness than women, and even men who aren't technically color blind seem to have trouble distinguishing between red and orange for example. I don't think that it's just a vocabulary issue either... I mean I'm not talking about knowing the difference between chartreuse and yellow.
One time, a friend and I were walking to a pizza place a few blocks from his apartment, in the winter time. He was wearing this turquoise-colored ski jacket, and I made some comment about it. He looked at me blankly and said, you mean this green jacket? We had a brief disagreement about the color, and then I asked the next ten people that we passed "Is my friend's jacket green or turquoise?" All five women and three of the five men said "turquoise." The other two guys said "green."
Anyway, given that men are more likely to have some degree of color blindness, and men are also more likely to be play boardgames, are there any games that you've played where the colors of the board or the pieces have caused problems? And have you ever played any games with someone who had serious color blindness?
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07 Jan 2009 11:32 #16192
by mikoyan
Replied by mikoyan on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
I was playing Naval Battles with some friends (the newish "improvement" on Avalon Hill's classic Naval War) and one of them was having trouble distinguishing between some of the symbols on the card. I remember in college when some people were having problems with Axis and Allies due some of the similarities of the colors.
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07 Jan 2009 11:32 #16193
by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
I know this colorblind dude, we've gamed with him a few times. Yes, there are tons of times when he can't distinguish colors so it does make sense when a product designer gives you a couple of signifiers like symbols or shapes to distinguish pieces from each other. Sometimes we have to tell the guy what colors are what and he usually has to be yellow just so he can see his own pieces. He does pretty well with it though, and unlike a lot of afflicted geeks he doesn't make a big show of his condition.
Sixth COSMIC color? Please let it be pink...
Sixth COSMIC color? Please let it be pink...
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07 Jan 2009 11:42 #16196
by Schweig!
Replied by Schweig! on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
Michael Barnes wrote:
You mean he does not carry the colorblind microbadge!?He does pretty well with it though, and unlike a lot of afflicted geeks he doesn't make a big show of his condition.
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07 Jan 2009 12:01 #16198
by Juniper
Replied by Juniper on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
The obvious solution is to replace the plastic flying saucers with various hand-made Fimo livestock.
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07 Jan 2009 12:13 #16199
by VonTush
Replied by VonTush on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
I picked up the game Family Business (the new '08 version) and when playing it for the first time I thought that this game in particular needs some sort of symbols on the cards. Our table was just a coffee table that we were playing on and we had all six playing so we had to overlap the "Hit List" cards to save space and that caused a lot of players to lose track of where their family members were. Especially with the Aqua Marine and Green cards. I don't have problems seeing colors but from I distance I was having a hard time telling the colors apart and I knew for a fact one of the guys playing the game has a degree of color blindness and that he was having some problems though he didn't let on.
LvT
LvT
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- Michael Barnes
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07 Jan 2009 13:02 #16202
by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
Completely off-subject here...but WTF is it with FAMILY BUSINESS? It's an awesome game, but NO ONE has ever been able to understand that:
1. The cards need text or more explicit icons
2. The game could look incredible with period photographs (think Weegee) instead of hideous cartoon artwork
I swear, every edition of the game- including the new one- repeats the exact same mistakes in layout, graphic design, and presentation. And please, for the love of god, bring back the coffin box.
1. The cards need text or more explicit icons
2. The game could look incredible with period photographs (think Weegee) instead of hideous cartoon artwork
I swear, every edition of the game- including the new one- repeats the exact same mistakes in layout, graphic design, and presentation. And please, for the love of god, bring back the coffin box.
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07 Jan 2009 13:03 - 07 Jan 2009 13:11 #16205
by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
Well, you've got two interesting causal phenomenon that could be causing your "on the street" study. One could be the cause you suggested, a physical difference in the ability to sense color. But the other could be a sociological phenomenon with the average man being for less aware of gradations in color and unable to identify those gradations, not because he doesn't see the difference, but because he doesn't understand the significance of the difference and doesn't know the vocabulary.
The physical difference, since it's genetic, suggests some fascinating (if you're a social scientist like me) selection processes over time. Why would women be better at color or more specifically, why would it be weeded out of the gene pool vs. men who it doesn't matter as much for? Why would they be selected for color over men, who are allowed to have more incidence of color blindness? Are men less disadvantaged by color blindness? In the same way that Africans have sickle cell more often because sickle cell hurts you but has the side effect of making you less vulnerable to malaria? The obvious point is that color is vital to social and societal activity, which traditionally women have been more associated with. They had greater need to deftly navigate human social groups. But there are a number of other possible explanations, I suppose...
And no, I've never played a game with color blind people.
The physical difference, since it's genetic, suggests some fascinating (if you're a social scientist like me) selection processes over time. Why would women be better at color or more specifically, why would it be weeded out of the gene pool vs. men who it doesn't matter as much for? Why would they be selected for color over men, who are allowed to have more incidence of color blindness? Are men less disadvantaged by color blindness? In the same way that Africans have sickle cell more often because sickle cell hurts you but has the side effect of making you less vulnerable to malaria? The obvious point is that color is vital to social and societal activity, which traditionally women have been more associated with. They had greater need to deftly navigate human social groups. But there are a number of other possible explanations, I suppose...
And no, I've never played a game with color blind people.
Last edit: 07 Jan 2009 13:11 by Gary Sax.
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07 Jan 2009 14:15 #16215
by NeonPeon
Replied by NeonPeon on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
I used to work with a guy who couldn't distinguish red and green, and he had a lot of trouble with blues and purples too. Somehow, he wound up designing the web-based front-end for our database application. Every once in a while he'd design a hideously colored page and had to be told it looks like shit.
According to a quick Googling, 7%-8% of all men have red-green color blindness, so it just doesn't make sense for game designers/publishers not to accommodate this demographic. If you count "some form of color vision deficiency" it's as high as 8%-12%! (I'm too lazy to properly provide sources - I looked at several
)
According to a quick Googling, 7%-8% of all men have red-green color blindness, so it just doesn't make sense for game designers/publishers not to accommodate this demographic. If you count "some form of color vision deficiency" it's as high as 8%-12%! (I'm too lazy to properly provide sources - I looked at several
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07 Jan 2009 14:33 #16216
by ubarose
Replied by ubarose on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
Gary Sax wrote:
Visual optimization for gathering vs visual optimization for hunting. A gather needs to recognize the difference between the redish-blue berries which are poison, and the bluish-red berries that are good eating, and needs to be able to distinguish between the two colors at a distance so she doesn't waste time hiking to the wrong bush. The hunter needs to recognize the difference in shape and movement - is it just the wind moving the branches of a tree, or is it an animal moving in the branches.
Another interesting fact about the difference between the typical female processing of visual information vs the the male, is that men scan sequentially (for movement) to find things while woman take in the whole picture and pluck out what they are looking for. Its why men stare into the fridge until their eyelashes get frosty looking for the mayo, but a woman can just open the door and grab the mayo. The man is scanning and identifying each item individually in his search for the mayo (which isn't moving and therefore is hidden). The woman sees the entire contents of the fridge instantaneously and indentifies the mayo. Again it is optimization for hunting vs optimization for gathering.
This might have some impact on why men and women like different board games, or play games differently. They see and process the board information differently. I find that I really don't like games that require scanning and processing board information sequentially to play well, because it requires a great deal of mental discipline and effort for me to do this. Worker placement really sucks because when I see the board I just see that there is a bunch of blue guys in the upper left box, and some scattered red guys in the middle and a bunch of yellow guys on the right. This information in pretty useless. However if I'm looking at a RISK board, or even an Arkham board, I can get a bunch of useful information instantaneously with very little mental effort.
Why would women be better at color or more specifically, why would it be weeded out of the gene pool vs. men who it doesn't matter as much for?
Visual optimization for gathering vs visual optimization for hunting. A gather needs to recognize the difference between the redish-blue berries which are poison, and the bluish-red berries that are good eating, and needs to be able to distinguish between the two colors at a distance so she doesn't waste time hiking to the wrong bush. The hunter needs to recognize the difference in shape and movement - is it just the wind moving the branches of a tree, or is it an animal moving in the branches.
Another interesting fact about the difference between the typical female processing of visual information vs the the male, is that men scan sequentially (for movement) to find things while woman take in the whole picture and pluck out what they are looking for. Its why men stare into the fridge until their eyelashes get frosty looking for the mayo, but a woman can just open the door and grab the mayo. The man is scanning and identifying each item individually in his search for the mayo (which isn't moving and therefore is hidden). The woman sees the entire contents of the fridge instantaneously and indentifies the mayo. Again it is optimization for hunting vs optimization for gathering.
This might have some impact on why men and women like different board games, or play games differently. They see and process the board information differently. I find that I really don't like games that require scanning and processing board information sequentially to play well, because it requires a great deal of mental discipline and effort for me to do this. Worker placement really sucks because when I see the board I just see that there is a bunch of blue guys in the upper left box, and some scattered red guys in the middle and a bunch of yellow guys on the right. This information in pretty useless. However if I'm looking at a RISK board, or even an Arkham board, I can get a bunch of useful information instantaneously with very little mental effort.
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07 Jan 2009 14:43 #16218
by Ken B.
Replied by Ken B. on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
Oh man...I thought I was the only one with the mayo problem!
I'll open the fridge and stare furtively for several minutes, usually because my youngest son has asked for ketchup or something. I'll eventually say, "I think we're out of ketchup." Then my wife will come over and nab it immediately from the fridge, right in front of me. It was like it wasn't there until she pointed out where it was.
I'll open the fridge and stare furtively for several minutes, usually because my youngest son has asked for ketchup or something. I'll eventually say, "I think we're out of ketchup." Then my wife will come over and nab it immediately from the fridge, right in front of me. It was like it wasn't there until she pointed out where it was.
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07 Jan 2009 14:57 #16222
by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
Well there you go, my evolution/anthropology question answered.
If you have any questions about legislative politics, democracy, trade or international politics let me know. HA.
If you have any questions about legislative politics, democracy, trade or international politics let me know. HA.
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07 Jan 2009 15:04 #16226
by DeletedUser
Replied by DeletedUser on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
We were playing poker on New Year's Eve and had trouble distinguishing the black chips from the navy blue chips. But I think this was due to yet another causal phenomenon - namely the level of alcohol consumed by the group. Made for some interesting betting though.
Very interesting points Ubarose. I also struggle to find things in the pantry and the kids drawers that my wife finds instantly. She just thinks I'm useless, but now I can tell her I'm just looking to club something.
Actually, the more I think about this, the more examples spring to mind. I can see this occupying my mind most of today.
Very interesting points Ubarose. I also struggle to find things in the pantry and the kids drawers that my wife finds instantly. She just thinks I'm useless, but now I can tell her I'm just looking to club something.
Actually, the more I think about this, the more examples spring to mind. I can see this occupying my mind most of today.
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07 Jan 2009 15:20 #16230
by ubarose
Replied by ubarose on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
Ken B. wrote:
But if that ketchup so much as exhaled, you'd be on it like white on snow.
Oh man...I thought I was the only one with the mayo problem!
I'll open the fridge and stare furtively for several minutes, usually because my youngest son has asked for ketchup or something. I'll eventually say, "I think we're out of ketchup." Then my wife will come over and nab it immediately from the fridge, right in front of me. It was like it wasn't there until she pointed out where it was.
But if that ketchup so much as exhaled, you'd be on it like white on snow.
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07 Jan 2009 15:22 #16231
by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Re:Color Blindness and Board Games
I haven't played boardgames with any seriously colorblind people, but I have talked to a couple of role-players who don't like to play boardgames because they are colorblind. Even so, color is sometimes a bit of an issue in our group, because one of our regulars likes to play in the dark. Wait, that didn't come out right... he apparently gets migraines from certain lighting situations, so he tends to play with minimal lighting.
It got ridiculous in our last game of Battlestar Galactica, which started an hour before sundown. We had a single lamp on at one end of the room, but the ambient light from the windows went away. I was sitting closest to the lamp, but even I noticed that it was getting pretty dark in the room. I asked him twice if they needed the other light on, and he and his wife were all "no, we're fine." Finally, the guy sitting next to him complained that he couldn't read his cards or the board anymore, so we finally turned the second lamp on.
It got ridiculous in our last game of Battlestar Galactica, which started an hour before sundown. We had a single lamp on at one end of the room, but the ambient light from the windows went away. I was sitting closest to the lamp, but even I noticed that it was getting pretty dark in the room. I asked him twice if they needed the other light on, and he and his wife were all "no, we're fine." Finally, the guy sitting next to him complained that he couldn't read his cards or the board anymore, so we finally turned the second lamp on.
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