Heartland Family wanted for Adoption of Jur

I was watching the news last night and a story came on about how the legalization of drugs and prostitution have failed in the Netherlands.

As you know, our good friend Jur who posts often on this forum is from the Netherlands so I am asking if there is a gracious family from the US Heartland to adopt Jur from the out of control situation in the Netherlands, if indeed it is as bad as the news story states.

I hope not, and it is becoming harder to trust the news here everyday so let's check with Jur first before we start taking applications to adopt him.

The news story showed some pictures of these prostitutes in the windows waiting for clients but frankly Ethel Murman looked more appealing than some of these women!



It is hard to believe they are asking for money for that service seems like it should be free and a charity case at that!

I imagine if I walked along that block they would offer to pay me, which of course as a gentleman I would decline.

If you would like to donate to the adopt Jur fund please send me a private e-mail

I saw something about this on O'Reilly I think. From memory, I think they were blaming socialism.

Look, I'll let Jur comment on the Netherlands, but here in NZ prostitution was legalised a few years back and things are really starting to break down. Younger and younger girls are turning to prostitution, the gangs are still running the show, brothels are setting up shop in the same buildings as creches, it's bad. I can only imagine how unhinged things have become in the Netherlands.

The socialist government here (that's just been voted out thankfully) tried to normalise prostitution and have it treated as just another occupation. It will never be just another occupation.

We are still pretty tough on drugs here.

Melbs had legalised brothels since as long as I remember. It's no big deal.
I did find Amsterdam at night very fucking seedy though.

Look, I'll let Jur comment on the Netherlands, but here in NZ prostitution was legalised a few years back and things are really starting to break down. Younger and younger girls are turning to prostitution, the gangs are still running the show, brothels are setting up shop in the same buildings as creches, it's bad. I can only imagine how unhinged things have become in the Netherlands.

What is a creche?

Mad Dog wrote:

What is a creche?

Day care for pre-school age children.

Mr Skeletor wrote:

Melbs had legalised brothels since as long as I remember. It's no big deal.

Granted, prostitution has always been with us and probably always will be. I accept that. But legalising it normalises it and it's this aspect that I disagree with. If a person is ok with their Granny, mother, sister or daughter being a prostitute then it might be considered a normal occupation to them. But I can't imagine there are too many of people out there that think this way.

This is what I don't understand: Why is selling drugs and working as a prostitute illegal, but not using drugs and "visiting" a prostitute?

Obviously the law makers don't understand the subtleties of cause and effect.

I guess it would be more effective if undercover cops arrested punters instead of whores.

Sorry if I scared anyone. You were probably thinking New Zealand was the new Sodom & Gomorrah.

Back on topic. Will Jur be bringing any games with him once adopted?

In Sweden selling sex isn't illegal, but buying it is. Seems like a fair compromise between being totally illegal and being legal. However, Swedish men just go over to Finland where they can get their hands on Eastern-European women.

Prostitution is actually legal in a large number of European countries, while running a brother or being a pimp is illegal.

There's a huge amount of gray area, especially since so many prostitutes are the victims of trafficking. It's a hell of a lot more complicated than just making it legal or illegal.

Count Orlok wrote:

There's a huge amount of gray area, especially since so many prostitutes are the victims of trafficking. It's a hell of a lot more complicated than just making it legal or illegal.

I agree. The NZ govt thought that by making it legal, it would solve a lot of problems. It solved some, but created a whole host of others. Again, I take issue with normalising it. Sure, make it legal if that reduces harm but don't start placing brothel ads in the local recruitment office (that's happening here).

LOL

I can't just turn my back on this site for a day can I?

Now I wouldn't trust Bill O'Reilly to faithfully portray anything but the crucifixion of Christ.

1. drugs are not legal in the Netherlands and have not been in many decades. But people with small personal stashes (5 grams I think) of soft drugs (hashies/marihuana) are not prosecuted, as are the coffee shops (I think the semi-legal barrier is half a kilo for shops). That is an important distinction. It is also 'legal' to grow up to four plants yourself (lovely smell!)

That policy has lead (maybe paradoxically) to a comparatively low drug use overall in the Netherlands and to low associated societal damage. It has also prevented the police from developing its own paramilitary units, and the development of a police-security complex that holds the US in its grips, holding one American in ? in jail.

On the other hand it is probably a factor why the Netherlands is an important producer and intermediate trader of drugs. That doesn't make us loved with our neighbours.

STrangely enough, also, many European countries have shifted their drug policy towards the Dutch approach in the last few years. So I wouldn't consider it a failure at all. And I'm seriously worried by government attempts to fully prohibit it again.

The guy I picked up from the gutter last night in Amsterdam was not stoned, he was drunk.


2. prostitution was legalised a few years ago. Has that failed? At least some of the prosititutes are paying taxes now. On the other hand, there are a lot of women coming in from eastern EUrope and other parts of the world to work in the Netherlands and it supports a large women trafficking industry. That is mostly the result of globalisation, and I'm afraid that the same type of prostitutes works in all countries now, whether it's legal or not.

The AMsterdam town council has now decided to clear up a good part of the red light district and revoke al lot of licences. We'll see how that turns out.

Question is: is the prostitution thing solvable or not? Like D&T, I'm afraid it isn't. There has been experimentation with special zones in the 1970s and 1980s, and then it was forbidden, driving prostitution underground. It's just a kind of business that won't die and the circumstances for the women might be worse if you can't see it.

I'll ask a friend of mine who works for a local policy consultancy firm.

But in general the best case for prohibition of vices was made in the US in the 1920s and 1930s. Did that work? I'm afraid it didn't. These things are unsolvable and every society tries to find a way to deal with it. It's always going to be messy.

But of course I'll be happy to spend some time in the Heartland. I'll bring BSG, Napoleon's Triumph, Hispania and EMpires in Arms. That should get me through the first couple of weeks. Too bad Steve isn't offering a place himself. We could do some jamming together.

Count Orlok wrote:

In Sweden selling sex isn't illegal, but buying it is. Seems like a fair compromise between being totally illegal and being legal. However, Swedish men just go over to Finland where they can get their hands on Eastern-European women.

They dont come to Finland they go to estonia. Finland actualy has the same law, selling is legal, buying and pimping is illegal.