Tough read re: being a woman in the games industry

There have been some programs to teach consent and appropriate sexual practices in Kenya, taught to both genders. Evidently they have had some positive impact as well. I would gladly welcome such a thing in the US educational system, particularly as the father of two sons.

You can read about those programs here.

Octavian is in an impossible, unenviable position. He has to keep the peace and follow the rules, all while serving his company’s interests and being forced to suppress his own anger at the whole situation.

Gamers can be truly disgusting people at times. Myself included, obviously. I don’t know why it is but the 5% of total cunts who do things like this Sierens dude make the entire
community tainted.

As to my punching a Dick in the face position, corporal punishment has always been an effective corrector and preventative measure. Like they say: Train you sons to be gentlemen and train your daughters to accept nothing less.

SuperflyTNT wrote: He has to keep the peace and follow the rules, all while serving his company’s interests

I'd be curious to see where his personal thoughts on modding lie. We traded a few comments on reddit once, but I'd be interested in exploring. I modded reddit for a while (talk about something bad for your mental health), and it's a shit 'job' and you deal with shit people. I did take the stance that anything that exists in the community exists because the mods allow it; if there's repeated issues of sexism then the mods either need to own that their policies allow it or change their moderating behavior. Because of that I've looked at BGG with frustration, but I wonder if some of the mod framework comes from 'corporate' rather than his own philosophy.

I agree with you, it's an almost impossible situation.

Just a reminder that even though we're mostly self-policing that posts insulting/harassing/demeaning anyone for their gender, color, or sexuality are not tolerated here.

Now I'm inclined to add stuff like the "where's the evidence" or "just a joke" posts about sexual harassment in gaming that I've read elsewhere. Those posts aren't a call for fairness or justice, they're a call for victim-blaming or victim-silencing. The evidence is the countless women telling you this shit happens to them all the time and telling you that it hurts them. Their united voices hold more weight with me than some dudes whining about possible witch-hunts ever will.

That post is good but also a little all over the place since it's being updated constantly. Online is complicated since things update so fast.

It's infuriating to me to know that there are several discussions going on about this on BGG and I'm not seeing any of them in my main view. Unless you already know the situation and know where to dig, you'd never know that a discussion is taking place. It's an important discussion to be having, but it's out of sight.

I don't think this is by design; BGG is notoriously hard to navigate even for normal things. But it does contribute to BGG's reputation for not wanting to rock the industrial boat and do anything that might stop people from buying and "collecting". Any time a discussion like this does come up in the general, public-facing forums, it's almost immediately shut down by assholes who either get it locked and make it drop off the front page or who send it to RSP to die. The moderation system, even if well-intended, has been gamed (unsurprisingly), but I don't think there's a managerial interest in doing anything about it.

As I've said multiple times, we can't address these issues unless we discuss them, and we need to discuss them fully and frankly, and not off in some corner. I don't know enough about how BGG is set up, but despite some moderators with good intentions, there is no evidence of a corporate will to take these discussions seriously.

As a result, you get the people who are all, "well I've never heard about these things!" and it's because they haven't, because the discussion is pushed out of their eyes. It makes an already difficult discussion even more difficult.

Here, Here, Legomancer!

Legomancer wrote:
As a result, you get the people who are all, "well I've never heard about these things!" and it's because they haven't, because the discussion is pushed out of their eyes. It makes an already difficult discussion even more difficult.

I mean, the thing is, he has heard about those things. It's just that BGG is one of the few places left where a 60-year-old with a "Rommel in Africa" microbadge will immediately back him up: "it's okay, buddy, I've never heard of these things either."

Aaaand off to RSP, where no one's ever heard of anything.

Shit like this sickens me. I hate that people are treated like this.

It’s awesome that Origins is working with the Columbus cops to sort these assholes out

There's a thread on Reddit right now concerning this topic that is a very good read. It's also a very frustrating read:

www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/8t0...im_all_life_long_my/

I also think it highlights the importance of positive community building and the difficulty of enforcement.

Not Sure wrote: The "average boardgamer" who posts on Internet forums is often in his forties or older, but that's a skewed view of the hobby. There's a quite healthy game group at the San Francisco office of my company (that I occasionally visit) who don't give a fuck about BGG or cons or anything else. Just a bunch of twenty-somethings enjoying games in an environment where being a dickhead can have real-world consequences. I get the feeling they're not alone at all in that.

There are younger gamers, but I do think the average is about that age. Considering that the average "hardcore" video game player is in his 30s, I think the boardgame average should be higher.

In my experience, younger gamers exist and are common but they are less into the hobby and disproportionately not into the hobby given their involvement in video games and so on. Most of the young geeks I know are starting to get into it, but still aren't hobbyists.

Keep in mind, though, that things are different here and I'm a massive outliner in many ways.

Wow, now that you tell me, you could be right. Of all my juniors in the office, very few are actually gamers. The ones who are play are on mobile mainly. I know 2 guys at work who are gamers, but they are 30+ and 40+. It's probably a $$$ issue. Back then we pirated games (both because it was unavailable, no internet, and less than $10 spending money a month), but now people just play mobile games.

It's not money, it's pacing. Those of us with kids have little interest in games with time pressure.

And I'm not sure why we're equating older with more likely to be predatorial. My last two run-ins were with younger men.

Sagrilarus wrote: It's not money, it's pacing. Those of us with kids have little interest in games with time pressure.

And I'm not sure why we're equating older with more likely to be predatorial. My last two run-ins were with younger men.

That’s what I was thinking. I’ve never, ever treated a woman with disrespect, especially sexually. I don’t even understand the concept of how men can feel entitled to say sexual shit like this guy apparently did. It’s classless, and for a gamer, it illustrates that dude has zero game when it comes to courting.

The younger dudes I know are more snide like that and would say crass shit as a pickup line.

I know Jeffrey. He’s a stand up guy. If he says to Mark Sierens that he shouldnt be surprised...chances are Jeffrey has seen some shit go down.