Shelf Toad of the Year

hotseatgames wrote: Also the fact that it has a million rules, and unless you play frequently, it's a full rule book read every time, ala Mage Knight.

I believe this is the major factor. Many games are plagued by this. Good games that need to be a lifestyle game in order to see frequent play, but aren't quite good enough to be a legitimate lifestyle game.

Monsterpocalypse was a good example of this. It is objectively a really good game, but the time you need to put into it to get good returns on your time investment are considerable.

And if you need to relearn the Byzantine parts of the game each time you pick it up, the less likely you're to pick it up. Vicious cycle.

But some lifestyle games are successful in this. Magic the Gathering is a good example of being popular enough to not have to relearn the rules each time you pick it up.

I think attempts like Monpoc, earth reborn, etc are much needed designs for the community. Sometimes they stick and become part of the backbone of the gaming world, and others just were not the right fit for the zeitgeist of the moment.

cranberries wrote: Have we established why Earth Reborn is a shelf toad?

I remember that at the time it was announced and was being promoted the focus was on the super-cool miniatures. "What about the game?" "Don't know but damn -- look at that wolf guy jumping over the barrel!" I don't think I ever heard a feedback here on F:At regarding someone actually playing the game. I don't think it was sold to be played.

I was hoping for a more tightly focused question -- what is the Shelf Toad Game of 2017? What game published in 2017 is the biggest shelf toad?

Sagrilarus wrote: I remember that at the time it was announced and was being promoted the focus was on the super-cool miniatures. "What about the game?" "Don't know but damn -- look at that wolf guy jumping over the barrel!" I don't think I ever heard a feedback here on F:At regarding someone actually playing the game. I don't think it was sold to be played.

There was a lot of very positive buzz about it here when it first came out. I found this - which is a couple of years afte release - but still, look at the comments:

fortressat.com/articles-boardgame-review...orn-doesn-t-like-you

Personally, I skipped it on complexity. Really couldn't see myself teaching it to anyone, nor assembling the annoying board each game.

I would like to play a less complex but rich and interesting version of Earth Reborn without the crazy set up time. But wouldn't that be Heroscape, with pre-printed maps--or maybe Space Hulk, with a little more flexibility and narrative?

I love Earth Reborn and have played it around 20 times. I haven't played it in two years but it's still my number one game of all time. The reasons it doesn't get played include:

-Setup is long (we usually just randomize the map to save time)
-The rules are expansive and require a full re-read every play (although I will say it's relatively intuitive and I remember about 75% of the rules without a re-read)
-The game is difficult to teach someone who has never played, especially the IPS system
-It's best 2 player, and I rarely have time for 2 player games.

I have a number of shelf toads despite constantly selling games and trying to keep my collection manageable. Most are what you'd expect - Runewars and the like. Unexpected I think is Mechs vs Minions, which I would have thought would get more than 3 plays in the year it's been out. Cave Evil Warcults is a real toad. I love Cave Evil and Warcults is a nice third edition of sorts, but it's simply too much. Way too many optional rules, campaign rules, and forcing players to draft their warbands just to play a game.

Games which are surprisingly not toads in my game group - Ascendancy (everyone loves this and wants to play it all the time) and Forbidden Stars. I also got a play of Mushroom Eaters in a couple of weeks ago.

Terra Mystica, never been played

Sagrilarus wrote: "What about the game?" "Don't know but damn -- look at that wolf guy jumping over the barrel!"

That's actually Incursion. One of my other shelf toads, that takes up considerably more shelf space than Earth Reborn.

Sagrilarus wrote: I was hoping for a more tightly focused question -- what is the Shelf Toad Game of 2017? What game published in 2017 is the biggest shelf toad?

I haven't played all the new games from 2017, but from what I have played and what I have seen, Fallen Land is the Shelf Toad Game of 2017.

-Long setup time.
-Each player manages the resources for a town
-Each player controls a party of five characters
-Each character has different abilities and individual equipment
-Dense blocks of text on cards
-Takes up to 5 hours to play
-Kickstarter, so no editorial oversight
-13 years of game design

charlest wrote: Cave Evil Warcults is a real toad. I love Cave Evil and Warcults is a nice third edition of sorts, but it's simply too much. Way too many optional rules, campaign rules, and forcing players to draft their warbands just to play a game.

Good call. That will like be the definite winner of the 2017 Toadies for pretty much anyone who bought it. It's hard enough for me to get people to play vanilla Cave Evil. (I never thought I would use "vanilla" as an adjective for Cave Evil...)

Not Sure wrote: You must have been really fucking high to find Dungeon Twister fun.

Did it become a shelf toad when you quit smoking weed? Just wondering...

I’ve never been a monster pothead. That would be the wife. No, I think it’s the kind of game you like if you like chess, but want more variety and a little more control over fights.

I love the game. Played the shit out of it. Just burned out on it. I really wanted DT2: Prison but never pulled the trigger on it.

The setup is balls, but really it’s that it’s a commitment to learn. You could zoom right to the SAGS rules, but each piece of the game is fairly disparate (as pre-2012 Games tended to be) and really is best learned in smaller parts. Going to a friend’s house for the afternoon and saying, “Hey, I’ve got a really cool game but we’re going to have to play it 8-12 times before we learn the whole thing and the setup time is at least a half hour long each game?” Yeah, best of luck with that.

Dungeon Twister was relatively popular for a while at my local game club, but I've never played it.

For my 2017 toad I have the same problem with Star Trek: Ascendancy that some other folks do - I need exactly three players and 3+ hours.

For older ones, I have a copy of TI3 that was played once, 9 or 10 years ago. I have a copy of Tide of Iron that has never been played.

Duel In The Dark has been a shelf toad since I've not found a person to play against. It has a flimsy solo mode, so that was only played to get the feel of the game. I think is is a beautiful looking game and I like the playstyle. There has to be a person around that likes it and I have to find them.

Josh Look wrote: The setup is balls, but really it’s that it’s a commitment to learn. You could zoom right to the SAGS rules, but each piece of the game is fairly disparate (as pre-2012 Games tended to be) and really is best learned in smaller parts. Going to a friend’s house for the afternoon and saying, “Hey, I’ve got a really cool game but we’re going to have to play it 8-12 times before we learn the whole thing and the setup time is at least a half hour long each game?” Yeah, best of luck with that.

I've taught at least two people the entire thing and jumped to SAGS. They didn't get everything 100%, but it worked well enough. I'll cut out stuff like torture and capturing and then I'll remind them other things as they come up (such as interrupting and bidding with CPs). The searching, shooting, and melee rules are all somewhat similar - looking for successes. The IPS system is confusing at first, but the iconography is actually pretty damn good.


Duel in the Dark is a good game Jake. I've almost re-bought that a couple of times.

The single time I played Dungeon Twister, the dungeon turned into a configuration that locked my character up for the rest of the game, through no action taken by myself or my opponent. FUUUUUUN.