Trashy Books

Oops, I left out one from last year and it's a shame because it's probably, without exaggeration, the best book I've ever read. Even better than those BOOK OF THE NEW SUN titles. It's Gene Wolfe, and it's his first novel, FIFTH HEAD OF CERBERUS.

It's tough to explain in brief and frankly I can't do it justice since it such an experential thing to encounter. It's made up of three novellas that may (or may not) have something to do with cloning, colonial theory, creoleism, murder, aborigines, myth, shapechangers, and prison. The level of ambiguity is extraordinary but much as he does in BOTNS Wolfe seems to be telling us everything betweenthe stories without revealing the full thing. It's about perception, perspective, and uncertainty and it is both unbelievably brilliant and starkly profound- it makes wasting time reading most of what is dubbed "science fiction" seem hollow and empty.

Pseudo- read LORD OF LIGHT and the first five AMBER books to get into Zelazny. I can see where you'd get the new agey-ness, but I wouldn't say it characterizes his work. AMBER is cool because it's more or less high fantasy but in a very 1970s way, if that makes sense to you. Corwin is totally a 1970s anti-hero and his presence in a story about magic, dimensional travel, and so on is pretty interesting stuff. LORD OF LIGHT is a masterpiece. BTW- I think you really ought to read the Elric books. It's not hard to see where GW got at least 75% of their ideas.

Jack- I've had Wagner on the docket for years, but like you say they're not easy to find.

You should definitely pick up LEXICON URTHUS, it's a terrific companion to BOTNS.

Michael Barnes wrote:

Jack- I've had Wagner on the docket for years, but like you say they're not easy to find.

You should definitely pick up LEXICON URTHUS, it's a terrific companion to BOTNS.

Wow, I was just going to post a link to the two indy press books on amazon I picked up for like $30 each a year or two ago. I see that they are going for like $100-$150 each now! Summbitch.

Thanks for the heads up on Lexicon Urthus I will definitely pick that up...

Oh and if you like character driven books (and you haven't already read them) I frickin jive on the A Game of Thrones series by Martin.

Loads of great stuff mentioned. Ender's Game is one that I didn't see mentioned.

Being a UK born geek I've read about 30 Terry Pratchett books. They are very much trash but very enjoyable. They are a kind of comfort food for your geek parts. Guards, Guards! was my favourite.

Kurt Vonnegut is another great comic writer with AT themes. I'd particularly recommend Slapstick.

I have recently been reading the Harry Potter books. I can see why J K Rowling has got so many kids crazy to read 700 and 800 page tomes. She can write laugh out loud comedy and tear in your eye tragedy all in the space of ten pages.

Just finished reading The Road. I bought it yesterday around 3:00 and finished reading it about 45 minutes ago. Amazing book. I can't say much about it yet as I still feel haunted by it.

There are some vignettes in THE ROAD that are just amazingly powerful in their ability to horrify even the most jaded, worldly reader. The tractor trailer scene springs to mind, as does the scene in the basement of the house. There's some absolutely stunning writing in that book, as good as anything I've ever read. The last page has one of the most beautiful prose passages I've ever read.

Just finished TITUS GROAN, the first of the Peake books...it was great. I really like the uber-baroque stylization, it's like if Dickens dropped his Victorian reserve and went all out. But it is thick, cumbersome, and some would find it boring. The atmosphere and the sheer dimensionality of description makes it a great book to me, and the characters are quite interesting by and large. It's not really fantasy at all, not sure why it gets lumped in with the genre. Oh, and a dude gets EATEN BY OWLS, which I think is awesome.

Reading GORMENGHAST now...after that, TITUS ALONE and then I'm going to try those BLACK COMPANY books by Glenn Cook. The idea of really gritty, raw fantasy appeals to me.

Thanks to everyone for all the glowing recommendations for THE ROAD. I picked up a copy today.

Michael, if you're looking for raw, gritty fantasy, you should at least check out THE BLADE ITSELF by Joe Abercrombie. It's fantasy, but it is dark and cynical and violent. The main characters are all flawed to varying degrees and ooze with black humor (not the racist kind). The George R. R. Martin books are pretty damn dark as well, but with none of the cynicism and dark humor found in the Abercrombie books.

I just finished reading The Road and I agree it certainly full of excellently written prose. But, sometimes I bit repetitive in his descriptions of ashy, gray snow.

I love Zelazny but I've never read Lord of Light. I should probably check that one out. One fun Zelazy I made a few years ago was a small series (maybe 2 books) about this immortal guy who was seeking revenge on this wizard that encased him in stone for a millenium. He also had an iron horse and boots that allowed him to walk on walls. Can't remember the title though.

Wolfe's series as mentioned before is really good. Quite a trip, with some really surreal imagery. It's been 10 years or so since I've read them though.

I just checked out the first Black Company book myself this week, but I need to finish Man in the High Castle first.

BLACK COMPANY, I dunno...I'm about 100 pages into it and I'm kind of not feeling it. I thought it would be refreshing to read something wiry and terse after Peake but I'm thinking that Cook isn't really a very good writer. I think in trying to trim the prose to a sort of gut level thing he's made some of the action strangely vague and confusing. The plot so far is oddly opaque. And I hate when a writer gets stuck on a particular word. Cook's word is, sadly "butt". The book is so gritty and raw that he says "butt" instead of "ass". It may get better, I do like certain things about it...like how wizards are treated almost like artillery pieces. The setting is also not very rich- it reminds me of that KING ARTHUR film, a kind of post-Roman England.

LORD OF LIGHT is an amazing novel. I wasn't too sure of it at first because I really wasn't feeling the Hindu/Buddhist angle, but it turns out to be something very original and insightful. The SF elements are handled in a way that I adore, where they're almost understated and somewhat misinterpreted by characters in the story. There's at least one set piece battle that is extraordinarily well described. Apparently in the 1970s there were plans to build this SF theme park based around LORD OF LIGHT. Jack Kirby was the conceptual designer and he did all these illustrations and concept drawings for it. It never got past the funding/investment stage, but the rights holders still have a website. Look it up, I'm too lazy.

THE ROAD does get repetitive and I think that's one of the book's faults. Example:

Are we the good guys dad?
Yes.
Like Batman and Robin?
Yes.
Are you sure?
Yes.
Can I have a coke?
No.
Wait a minute, what's a coke anyway?
It's the real thing.
What's the real thing, dad?

And on they walked through the ashtray that was Earth.

Hey dad?
Yes.
Are we the good guys?

The thing is, he actually captures how kids talk to adults and how adults respond pretty well...but there's too many exchanges similar to the one above.

But then you get a passage like "the sun circled the earth like a grieving mother with a lamp", which is such a devastatingly great metaphor.

Definitely check out his other stuff though...OUTER DARK is pretty awesome and pitch-black as well...same for BLOOD MERIDIAN.

MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE is a great novel, period. The issue of artifice versus authenticity has probably never been handled better.

metalface13 wrote:

I just finished reading The Road and I agree it certainly full of excellently written prose. But, sometimes I bit repetitive in his descriptions of ashy, gray snow.

The one that kept getting me was the burnt limbs everywhere. I don't know if it is because I am British but limbs to me mean human arms and legs.

Has anyone mentioned THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES by Ray Bradbury. That is a brilliant book.

metalface13 wrote:

One fun Zelazy I made a few years ago was a small series (maybe 2 books) about this immortal guy who was seeking revenge on this wizard that encased him in stone for a millenium. He also had an iron horse and boots that allowed him to walk on walls. Can't remember the title though.

I just checked out the first Black Company book myself this week, but I need to finish Man in the High Castle first.

Those Zelazny books were Dilvish the Damned and The Changing Land. They are a cut above most fantasy, but not exceptional like The Lord of Light. Try to track down The House on the Borderland, by William Hope Hodgson, as that was an influence on The Changing Land. In fact, I think one of those captive wizards was even named Hodgson, as a nod from Zelazny to his influence. Also, see if you can find the Lovecraft Mythos short story, The Hounds of Tindalos, by Frank Belknap Long. Those same creatures appeared in a crucial scene in The Changing Land, and they also appear as monsters in Arkham Horror and various Chaosium supplements for the Call of Cthulhu rpg.

I enjoyed the Black Company series, but the quality is variable. If you're not impressed with the first book, try to at least read the second one, which is very intense and not at all the usual fantasy fare.

Michael Barnes wrote:

BLACK COMPANY, I dunno...I'm about 100 pages into it and I'm kind of not feeling it. I thought it would be refreshing to read something wiry and terse after Peake but I'm thinking that Cook isn't really a very good writer. I think in trying to trim the prose to a sort of gut level thing he's made some of the action strangely vague and confusing. The plot so far is oddly opaque. And I hate when a writer gets stuck on a particular word. Cook's word is, sadly "butt". The book is so gritty and raw that he says "butt" instead of "ass". It may get better, I do like certain things about it...like how wizards are treated almost like artillery pieces. The setting is also not very rich- it reminds me of that KING ARTHUR film, a kind of post-Roman England.

LORD OF LIGHT is an amazing novel. I wasn't too sure of it at first because I really wasn't feeling the Hindu/Buddhist angle, but it turns out to be something very original and insightful. The SF elements are handled in a way that I adore, where they're almost understated and somewhat misinterpreted by characters in the story. There's at least one set piece battle that is extraordinarily well described. Apparently in the 1970s there were plans to build this SF theme park based around LORD OF LIGHT. Jack Kirby was the conceptual designer and he did all these illustrations and concept drawings for it. It never got past the funding/investment stage, but the rights holders still have a website. Look it up, I'm too lazy.

No spoilers here in my post here:

Cook is writing kind of a gritty noir take on Lord of the Rings. Instead of the nicey-nice Fellowship of the Ring, Cook gives us the Black Company, a military unit of mercenaries who happen to be working for the equivalent of a Nazgul at the start of the series. One reason this series is worth a look is that military personnel tend to love the Black Company books. The portrayal of military life is apparently realistic in tone, and the soldiers of the Black Company often utilize clever tactics that are fun to read. The tone is cynical and yet somewhat hopeful. The pacing is usually good, though there are places were there is too much intrigue and not enough action.

The initial setting of the Black Company books is the usual generic medieval pseudo-European culture that is common in fantasy. However, the series later moves to some very interesting places, including the Barrowlands and later, an eerie dimensional nexus surrounding an ancient fortress. The second half of the series takes place in the southern continent, which draws influences more from India, Malaysia and the Mideast.

Shadows Linger, the second book of the series, does a very odd thing in focusing on some guy who has no connection to the Black Company. His adventure is darker than most things you will ever read in fiction, and eventually his story does bring him into contact with the Black Company. Read that before deciding to quit this series.

My favorite book in the series is The Silver Spike. Like with Shadows Linger, it starts out with characters not involved in the Black Company. Gradually, an intense situation develops, and then the intensity just builds and builds until a really nasty finish.

As for Lord of Light, that is a great story. The non-linear structure is a little challenging, and it's densely packed with concepts, but Sam is easy to like. The amusement park concept that you describe is so bizarre that I don't see how it could have ever worked, but it's interesting to know that it could have happened.

I didn't feel The Road was repetitive in a bad way. More then just reinforcing a sense of hopelessness, it showed how the two characters ritualized everything they did to reassure each other.

Bought The Road on Friday and read about 10 pages. At first, I didn't find it very engaging; however, picked it up again Saturday Night and finished it this morning. Once you get started, it is pretty compelling. The Faulkerian writing style fits the subject matter well and really captures the hoplessness of the situation.

Space Ghost wrote:

Bought The Road on Friday and read about 10 pages. At first, I didn't find it very engaging; however, picked it up again Saturday Night and finished it this morning. Once you get started, it is pretty compelling. The Faulkerian writing style fits the subject matter well and really captures the hoplessness of the situation.

Every few years I read a book that totally blows me away, and leaves me desperate to discuss it with other readers because I just want to carry on the experience of reading the book somehow, even after it's finished. The Road was the last book to do that to me.

I thought that the repetitive conversations were simply a mirror of how adults and pre-teen children converse with each other. The particular example highlighted, about them being "the good guys" was repeated because they had to keep reassuring each other that there was some purpose in their day-to-day struggle to survive in that hell. I found it a valuable part of the book and not a weakness at all.

I recently finished Blood Meridian. It was excellent but I thought it had too much of an edge of the deliberately pretentious about it. Like it was written with one eye toward being deliberately impenetrable just to send overly-intellectual critics into raptures. For example after finishing the novel I checked out some criticism online and it turns out the book can be read as an allegory or critique of Gnostic and Antinomian branches of Christianity. I don't even know what Antinomianism is. WFT? I mean seriously, unless you're a scholar of religious history how the hell are you supposed to pick this up, and even if you can, what relevance is it to anyone? Hardly going to change your life, is it? The epilogue - which is apparently meaningless and has no direct relevance to the preceding story - is another example. I got the point of that but really, was there any need to couch it quite so obscurely?

MattDP wrote:

Space Ghost wrote:

Bought The Road on Friday and read about 10 pages. At first, I didn't find it very engaging; however, picked it up again Saturday Night and finished it this morning. Once you get started, it is pretty compelling. The Faulkerian writing style fits the subject matter well and really captures the hoplessness of the situation.

Every few years I read a book that totally blows me away, and leaves me desperate to discuss it with other readers because I just want to carry on the experience of reading the book somehow, even after it's finished. The Road was the last book to do that to me.

I thought that the repetitive conversations were simply a mirror of how adults and pre-teen children converse with each other. The particular example highlighted, about them being "the good guys" was repeated because they had to keep reassuring each other that there was some purpose in their day-to-day struggle to survive in that hell. I found it a valuable part of the book and not a weakness at all.

I thought the repetiveness of the situation was appropriate as well. Also, the pacing of the book really helps relate the feeling of being lost and wandering. There is no sense of time given in terms of explicit days or even how much time is spent between towns. I thought it was very well done.

I recently finished Blood Meridian. It was excellent but I thought it had too much of an edge of the deliberately pretentious about it. Like it was written with one eye toward being deliberately impenetrable just to send overly-intellectual critics into raptures. For example after finishing the novel I checked out some criticism online and it turns out the book can be read as an allegory or critique of Gnostic and Antinomian branches of Christianity. I don't even know what Antinomianism is. WFT? I mean seriously, unless you're a scholar of religious history how the hell are you supposed to pick this up, and even if you can, what relevance is it to anyone? Hardly going to change your life, is it? The epilogue - which is apparently meaningless and has no direct relevance to the preceding story - is another example. I got the point of that but really, was there any need to couch it quite so obscurely?

I am planning on getting Blood Meridian as well -- probably will start that next weekend.