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future AT game design
07 Feb 2009 18:42 #20476
by Hatchling
future AT game design was created by Hatchling
I like AT because I like conflict and interaction in my games. I am also drawn to how AT folks talk about the role of imagination, thematic depth, and narrative in games.
Anyway, the other day I heard an interesting interview on the radio with a video game designer who claimed that the future of video game design will be about providing access to a broader spectrum of emotional and imaginative experiences. The interview is here (I don't play video games, so I don't know the dude):
www.cbc.ca/spark/2009/01/full-interview-jenova-chen/
I liked the guy's point about how films started off providing a narrow range of experiences, but now have diversified into multiple genres that offer different emotional experiences. For some reason (probably because of all the chat in the air about game dynamics in BSG and Android) I started thinking about AT, and particularly about the possibility that AT interest in the thematic content of games may be prescient about the future of board gaming. For it seems to me that if one's interest in games is restricted to efficiency contests and themeless strategy, this reduces the scope of possible areas that boardgaming can expand into. Maybe boardgaming will be like film, and grow by expanding the kinds of imaginative and emotional experiences (eg from horror to comedy to thrillers to shades of each etc). And if that is the case then maybe it provides more evidence that ATers who promote the importance of theme and narrative are nudging game designers along the right path. Food for thought, anyway.
Anyway, the other day I heard an interesting interview on the radio with a video game designer who claimed that the future of video game design will be about providing access to a broader spectrum of emotional and imaginative experiences. The interview is here (I don't play video games, so I don't know the dude):
www.cbc.ca/spark/2009/01/full-interview-jenova-chen/
I liked the guy's point about how films started off providing a narrow range of experiences, but now have diversified into multiple genres that offer different emotional experiences. For some reason (probably because of all the chat in the air about game dynamics in BSG and Android) I started thinking about AT, and particularly about the possibility that AT interest in the thematic content of games may be prescient about the future of board gaming. For it seems to me that if one's interest in games is restricted to efficiency contests and themeless strategy, this reduces the scope of possible areas that boardgaming can expand into. Maybe boardgaming will be like film, and grow by expanding the kinds of imaginative and emotional experiences (eg from horror to comedy to thrillers to shades of each etc). And if that is the case then maybe it provides more evidence that ATers who promote the importance of theme and narrative are nudging game designers along the right path. Food for thought, anyway.
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07 Feb 2009 20:21 - 07 Feb 2009 20:29 #20479
by hancock.tom
Replied by hancock.tom on topic Re:future AT game design
Well, the narrative side of board gaming goes hand in hand with the social side of board gaming and in the end thats the only advantage that board games have over video games. You are sitting around a table with other people.
Dominion on bretspielwelt is a good time. Can you imagine playing Arkham Horror or Battlestar Galactica on BSW? Hell no, that would suck. The narrative and social experience is board gaming's advantage over video games. The emotional experience, laughing, experiencing defeat, all those emotions are what makes gaming fun. Cube efficiency engine games can (and will) end up on Xbox someday... and there are better, more exciting things to do on an Xbox.
I am not a huge videogamer, but that interview is pretty interesting. The funny thing about boardgame design is that while the style of design will probably move towards the narrative (you are even seeing that trend in some euros now), mechanically, some of the best new games are using things stolen from old designs.
Dominion on bretspielwelt is a good time. Can you imagine playing Arkham Horror or Battlestar Galactica on BSW? Hell no, that would suck. The narrative and social experience is board gaming's advantage over video games. The emotional experience, laughing, experiencing defeat, all those emotions are what makes gaming fun. Cube efficiency engine games can (and will) end up on Xbox someday... and there are better, more exciting things to do on an Xbox.
I am not a huge videogamer, but that interview is pretty interesting. The funny thing about boardgame design is that while the style of design will probably move towards the narrative (you are even seeing that trend in some euros now), mechanically, some of the best new games are using things stolen from old designs.
Last edit: 07 Feb 2009 20:29 by hancock.tom. Reason: This gnome has had too much grog!
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09 Feb 2009 09:27 #20553
by Jason Lutes
Replied by Jason Lutes on topic Re:future AT game design
I agree with hancock for the most part, with the exception that I think the social aspect is not the only thing that sets boardgames apart. It's certainly the primary thing, but the concrete, physical nature of boardgames , and their need to abstract content to a higher degree than video games, are actually advantages. When we move pieces around on a map or board, it resonates differently than when we do it via a computer or video game interface. And the great advantage to abstract game elements is that they allow the players' imaginations to fill in the gaps, which creates a wholly different (richer, more personalized) narrative experience than that allowed by most computer or video games.
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- Michael Barnes
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09 Feb 2009 14:26 #20606
by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Re:future AT game design
Something I think needs to happen to open the possibilities that AT-style design is characterized by in terms of thematic and narrative exploration is for designers to move beyond the three or four established models of AT design. You've got the post-TALISMAN adventure game, the tactical dungeon crawl, the RISK-derivative take over the world/light wargame, and the heavy metagame/negotiation/DIPLOMACY model. Mechanics like flipping over a card to reveal a monster that disappears when you throw dice at it are fine, but there has to be more out there than that.
ANDROID, even though I think it got bloated and slipped up in a few really critical areas, made a pretty serious play to go beyond those models. Part of the problem I think was that it looked to Eurogame design for solutions rather than creating new ones.
I really think that of those models the heavy metagame/negotiation/DIPLOMACY is the one that offers the most potential because it's the least scripted, least dependent on mechanics. BSG felt really fresh and innovative because it guided the metagame in a completely new way and even though it had some of the tried and true mechanics of AT games (flip a card, dice combat, etc.) it managed to repackage them into a whole that transcended genre and offered new emotional and psychological experiences with a novel degree of thematic resonance.
I definitely think that theme and narrative are, and always will be, the future of game design. The rest is nuts and bolts.
ANDROID, even though I think it got bloated and slipped up in a few really critical areas, made a pretty serious play to go beyond those models. Part of the problem I think was that it looked to Eurogame design for solutions rather than creating new ones.
I really think that of those models the heavy metagame/negotiation/DIPLOMACY is the one that offers the most potential because it's the least scripted, least dependent on mechanics. BSG felt really fresh and innovative because it guided the metagame in a completely new way and even though it had some of the tried and true mechanics of AT games (flip a card, dice combat, etc.) it managed to repackage them into a whole that transcended genre and offered new emotional and psychological experiences with a novel degree of thematic resonance.
I definitely think that theme and narrative are, and always will be, the future of game design. The rest is nuts and bolts.
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10 Feb 2009 11:35 #20698
by Jason Lutes
Replied by Jason Lutes on topic Re:future AT game design
Hey Michael, this seems like as good a thread as any to ask you this: some time back you made a comment on F:AT to the effect that Magic Realm has a specific world culture imbedded in it that comes out through playing. Could you elaborate on that comment, with specific examples (or correct me if I misunderstood)? I've only just recently started to fiddle with Realmspeak, and I'm really interested in the unique ways games can build narrative (which is hopefully what keeps this question on-topic). Examples of how games can communicate narrative context in subtle ways are of great interest to me.
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10 Feb 2009 12:08 - 10 Feb 2009 12:10 #20700
by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Re:future AT game design
Well Jason, I'm barely fluent in MAGIC REALM having played it almost exclusively in REALMSPEAK and just touching on some of the more complex elements of it(that's my gaming goal by the end of 2009- to master it)but the way it does so is mostly through the natives that have different actions/reactions to characters. It also has a really original magic system unlike anything else I've ever seen and I think that imparts a certain degree of "culture" to the game that isn't commong in board games. Even how the phases of gameplay are titled ("Birdsong") add subtle detail that may not necessarily be mechanical, but they provide a sense of atmosphere and world-building. I'd have to dig the rulebook out to give you specifics...check back with me in about six weeks, we're about to start seriously digging into it.
Last edit: 10 Feb 2009 12:10 by Michael Barnes.
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