Let’s Talk about ANDOR (spoilers ok)

Just watched this over the last two days. I’ve seen MB and others call it the best Star Wars thing in decades, and I’m inclined to agree, but I’m not really the biggest SW fan. There are droids and stuff, but no lightsabers and minimal space battles.

Like the setting is there, but genre and tone are almost entirely different. This seems to be asking bigger questions about power, trust, capitalism, and a host of other themes beyond red = evil that we see in the rest of SW content.

If it turns out that Luthen is actually Palpatine or some shit, I will probably break something in my house. That “I see your anger” stuff with Cassian was interesting coming from a rebel. Please don’t ruin it guys.

Yeah, I think they really played with Star Wars fundamental "fan theory" culture by teasing how hard Luthen is a jedi or whatever and... just not going through with it.

I tried to watch this recently, but it just wasn't enough STAR or WARS for me and what I wanted from the setting.

I realise I may be aging out of their target market, but I also feel like so much Star Wars content is tired or just bad lately that people are celebrating anything that comes out and is mediocre. When they say 'but Andor is good', I've learned that means barely watchable for me.

Smeagol wrote: I tried to watch this recently, but it just wasn't enough STAR or WARS for me and what I wanted from the setting.

I realise I may be aging out of their target market, but I also feel like so much Star Wars content is tired or just bad lately that people are celebrating anything that comes out and is mediocre. When they say 'but Andor is good', I've learned that means barely watchable for me.

Yeah, I mean. I agree that it’s very un-STAR WARS in a lot of ways. But I’m also one of those weirdos who probably ranks Rogue One among the top of the movies because I don’t venerate them. I didn’t watch it until I saw a number of people hyping it up, and I’d say it benefited from my binge around episode 6-8 of the series.

It does not recreate that sense of childlike wonder. It instead wonders what it’s like to be the ant at the wrong end of the Empire’s magnifying glass.

It's easily the best-written thing for the Star Wars franchise since Empire Strikes Back and superior to that, since that was still loaded with the Skywalker stuff ("B-Western in space"; HT: Harlan Ellison.) It has developed characters with understandable motivations following an actual plot. MSample is right in that Andy Serkis did great work, but I think Stellan Skargard, who spent a couple minutes detailing exactly what the pressure of leading a covert rebellion will do to your life, your relationships, your worldview, had the acting moment of the series so far. Likewise, Genevieve O'Reilly, dealing with some of those same pressures and still maintaining her facade of carefree socialite/senator has been excellent, especially when she displays those genuine moments of feeling unsupported by her shiftless husband and petulant daughter. These feel like real people, not actors filling a role that's been dictated to them. And the storyline is drenched in the actual nuts-and-bolts of trying to take on a dominant power and all of the suspicion, distrust, fear, and low-key outrage that goes with it. It was great. I was a doubter at first, but I'd gladly watch the second season and hope that they can do more with this franchise that actually focuses on story and not lightsabers. In fact, the one moment when I was rolling my eyes a bit was Luthen's escape from the cruiser when he switched on the shipsabers to slice through two TIE fighters. It's almost as ludicrous as ramming in Battlefleet Gothic. Who would get close enough to another ship to invite the kind of physical impact that would likely doom both pilots from contact with, y'know, outer space? But I guess they had to give at least a couple nods to the Skywalker crowd. Or something. I'm also impressed that they got Forest Whitaker to take such a minor role.

I think one of the aspects I enjoy most of the different sets of movies and the varied shows is that they all have their own tone and point of view. That brings a sense of a living universe to the collective SW stuff.

I like it quite a bit. I hope they can wander a bit more towards more traditional SW stuff in season 2 (K2-SO and the like) and maybe have more aliens.

But I def hope they don't let Filoni loose on it. While I like some of his more mystic/magic stuff, keep it far away from this. I think I need Andor level adult SW and then there can be silly Fett/Obi Wan stuff for the kiddies that I can just ignore.

I want this team to do the Rogue Squadron show as well in this style.

Make TIE fighters scary again!

It’s Star Wars for adults.

And frankly, you could set the same story in Imperial Japan in 1940 and it would work. There’s no bullshit magic getting people out of jams, no awesome hero guns that always hit their target the first time. Out of the ordinary things happen, but so far nothing unbelievable. The story stands on its own without divine intervention.

My most sincere hope is that no members of the Royal Family make an appearance in this one. This is well-considered characters doing interesting things, don’t junk it up with overworked characters from 40 years ago. They’re done, let them fade gently away.

I'm actually kinda curious to see if they can spin a coherent and rational narrative out of Palpatine's Empire without going into the Dark side Sith stuff. So far, in the context of Andor, I'm not really sure how much of what we are seeing is Empire stuff versus things the Republic ALREADY had going on. Did the Empire build that massive ass workshop prison in the what, 10 years since Palps took over? Did all those corps expand massively? I think Andors family on the mining planet was Republic stuff, and certainly any Imperial officer (do they have an NCO rank?) over, say 35-40 was mostly likely involved before or during the Clone Wars which seems sorta like a WW2 level event in terms of population % involved (or not, maybe 99% of the population just watched it on vid, kinda like most of the wars since Korea).

Star Wars isn't really built on a foundation that can support Andor, I don't think, so I hope they give the showrunners enough room to "let the past die, kill it if you have to" and try to hammer out an adult narrative from what is otherwise a pretty silly adventure universe.

Consider the Death Star, for example. What does it really do that 5-6 Star Destroyers in orbit can't already? Blowing up a planet is like the LEAST helpful capability when you ALREADY CONTROL everything. This isn't a nuclear arms race kinda thing because there isn't really any viable opposition to the Republic, at least not any I've seen in the films, games, and shows (granted, I've done very little with the exhaustive EU of books or comics) other than the Seperatists which is really more of a Civil War scenario and I doubt the Union or Confederacy would start nuking New York or Atlanta (well, outside of Sherman I suppose) at the stage we see in ANH, as it would be like the Union after winning just blasting Mobile out of spite or whatnot.

Anyway, Andor throws around a lot of grey paint on everything, and when you take the Empire out of "pure evil" and the Rebellion out of "pure good" the whole thing becomes a bit of a wobbly chair in dire need of a third leg. I hope they have one.

To my understanding, the Republic was well on its way to being the kind entity that the Empire became. I think that's the message that Lucas was trying to convey with the first of the prequels, where the Trade Federation was essentially acting against Naboo with Republican authority and Naboo was appealing to the Senate to change its approach. There's a lot of "Palpatine manipulating things behind the scenes to trigger the Clone Wars" which then triggered the "national defense" panic that creates the Empire. But there's no way you reasonably create a military control state like the Empire without a lot of the groundwork being laid already, like those systems under "corporate control" (that was clearly a Republic thing; see: Trade Federation) and work-release prisons for either corporations or the state (we have those now right here in the US of A.)

The presence of something like the Death Star is as much psychological as it is practical. Not only does it give a forward operating base for all of those Star Destroyers where they can be refueled and refitted on the site of any concerted action (remember, we're talking about a galaxy-wide government here (which is physically absurd but suspension of disbelief and all that), but it also makes people live in fear of the planet-destroyer. In the same way that the decision to use the bombs against Japan and the subsequent Cold War were more about the use of psychology and game theory ("They've done it once. They could do it again."), the Death Star becomes the physical symbol of Imperial control that exceeds any fleet of ships.

Jackwraith wrote: In fact, the one moment when I was rolling my eyes a bit was Luthen's escape from the cruiser when he switched on the shipsabers to slice through two TIE fighters. It's almost as ludicrous as ramming in Battlefleet Gothic. Who would get close enough to another ship to invite the kind of physical impact that would likely doom both pilots from contact with, y'know, outer space? But I guess they had to give at least a couple nods to the Skywalker crowd. Or something. I'm also impressed that they got Forest Whitaker to take such a minor role.

While I agree the lightsaber weapon was a bit jarring, the combat scene was one of the better thought out ones in Star Wars ( as compared to say the fucking Rebel bombers dropping gravity bombs attacking the big ass First Order ship in the latest trilogy ) .

- notice how Luthen tries to "get away" in order to get the Empire ship to increase the tractor beam, thereby insuring that when he releases the counter measures they'll get sucked into the dish that much faster

- when he breaks free of the tractor beam, he flies TOWARDS the ship. He knows that not only will this catch them by surprise, but it will decrease the amount of time the TIE fighters will have to shoot at him before he flies by - and they only can fire forward, whereas he has a turret that can fire in any direction .

- he takes out the ship carrying the boarding party first

- sure the fly by looks silly, but it also may prevent the TIE fighters from firing since if they miss, they hit the bridge

- the TIE fighters might have flown close, but his lightsaber weapon was no doubt a surprise as well.

And remember, this all started because the smug Imperial officer, even when given a "clean" transponder code, wanted the "practice" He's gonna have some explainin' to do when he reports a shattered tractor beam dish. HE will suffer the "full consequences" LOL.

Oh, definitely. I think the direction has been as top-notch as the storytelling and everything you cite has been a hallmark of the series, in that they obviously put thought into every shot and every scene. I was just kind of rolling my eyes at the "Star Wars = LASER SWORDZ!" moment.

Favorite episodes? I really got more into the show around episode 8 (the first in the work-prison). I feel like up to 6 it was kind of a more typical star wars idea or maybe just a heist, but then really pressing on the happily ever after idea and exposing that for a lie was cool.

While I think there are several worthy candidates ( Aldani, Rix Road ) I think for me it's One Way Out ( prison break ) .  While the bulk of the ep is dedicated to the climax of the prison arc, there are several other notable parts as well. 

Mon Mothma and the gangster

Our future Rebel leader learns that her daughters betrothal to a gangsters son is the price for gaining access to a money laundering network run by a gangster as she realizes its the only way she can evade Imperial auditors finding out that she's been siphoning off funds from her family fortune to fund the rebellion. Up til now she's been able to remain relatively at a distance , merely sending Luthian money. But now she'll have to get her hands dirty as well.

"I share my dreams with ghosts. I wake up every day to an equation I wrote 15 years ago from which there's only one conclusion, I'm damned for what I do"

Luthen meets with heretofore unknown Imperial traitor Lonni. Prior to that fans speculated it could have been Deidre Meera, or eventually a disillusioned Karn, but in this scene Luthen lays out his personal demons as he describes what he's done to start the seeds of the Rebellion. 

 "Power? Power doesn't panic.'


Cassian convinces a skeptical Kino Loy that the time to act is now if they're ever to escape the prison from which the only way out til now has been death. 

The prison escape is the best sequence in the entire series IMO. Capped off by one of , if not the best speeches ( runners up being Luthian's to Lonni and Cassian's mothers funeral speech ) . This ep is Andy Serkis' Emmy reel for sure.