FFG Asmodee Discussion

Here's one out of many BGGtard quotes that illustrates both their ignorance as well as their petulance:

"MSRP in modern America is your getting ripped off. The Internet has changed MSRP in just about EVERY industry. Assmodee trying to go back in time wont work. I will pay MSRP for some Christmas gifts tomorrow because I slacked off and waited to the last minute. Any company that demands I pay MSRP or even manipulates the MSRP will not have my support."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_clearing

Msample wrote: Here's one out of many BGGtard quotes that illustrates both their ignorance as well as their petulance:

"MSRP in modern America is your getting ripped off. The Internet has changed MSRP in just about EVERY industry. Assmodee trying to go back in time wont work. I will pay MSRP for some Christmas gifts tomorrow because I slacked off and waited to the last minute. Any company that demands I pay MSRP or even manipulates the MSRP will not have my support."

This really just pisses me off. This sense of entitlement. I hope that Asmodee just says "Fuck you, don't play our games". I hope this is a big move into Walmart and Target.

dsgcw.blogspot.com/2015/12/pray-i-dont-a...er.html?spref=fb&m=1

Retail sales accounts for 90% of hobby game sales, so says the author.

Apparently as big as CSI and MM are, they are small potatoes, if this is true.

Thanks for that link Pete, will have to add that to my regular reading list along with the Black Diamond blog.

What always perplexes me is that this is coming from a bunch of gamers. If you made a board game where they owned 50 of something and there was a demand for 75 of them, then someone offered them sixty cents on the dollar for it, they'd have a two word answer. This is game theory in real life pure and simple.

Boil this all down, this is the product, this is the price. Buy it if you think it's good value. Everything else is just self-inflicted dental wear.

The other irony is that not that long ago, CSI was being villified for selling stuff on Amazon at a higher price than on their own site. They were the villain then, now they are the plucky underdog getting screwed. My how times change.

SuperflyTNT wrote: Retail sales accounts for 90% of hobby game sales, so says the author.

Apparently as big as CSI and MM are, they are small potatoes, if this is true.

My problem with that is what's a "retail sale". CSI and MM have brick and mortar stores.

I have a hard time believing Amazon/CSI/MM/Cardhaus/other etailers account for only 10% when you check the inventories of MM. You can see on their daily news page the quantity of stock they're getting. They got 585 copies of the new X-Wing ship in this week.

Also, this is only information from a distributor. This totally discounts the inventory MM is getting through other means. They purchase bulk lots straight from publishers which happens often with Kickstarter games (especially for Kickstarter games, they purchased several dozen copies of Heroes Wanted straight from Action Phase at Geekway), and they also purchase bulk lots from other retailers. Almost all of their ding and dent games (at least at one point) came from other retailers they purchased in mass quantities.

I have a buddy who manages a local game store that doesn't sell online. His store is one of four under the same brand. At his store, which is a solid area that's busy with lots of residents, he's lucky to sell 5 X-Wing ships a month. He has board games that have been on the shelf for multiple years. I think he said he moves about 4-6 board games a month, and they're usually Love Letter/Munchkin. Comics/Magic/WH40K keep their store open.

Another thing that doesn't make sense with the online sales being 10%. So lets exclude Amazon, B&N, Target, etc. What percentage left is MM/CSI/Cardhaus? Maybe 1% in that scenario?

So we're to believe Asmodee is going through the trouble of enacting these vague new policies, issuing a press release, and a clarification that doesn't clarify anything, all to deal with that 1%? That doesn't make sense.

Lets say MM and CSI are ....15% of all FFG board game sales. Thats probably high, but go with me on it. The issue from Asmodee's standpoint is that they are distorting the perceived market value for say Armada core sets when they sell them online for 50% off. BGG user Googles " Armada core set sale" and those two pop up to the top of the search results. In that gamers mind, that's how much the game is worth wherever he shops. I always read about " fucking FLGS charges MSRP". I'd be willing to bet more often than not, its that they ARE charging exactly MSRP , but the nerd ragers idea of MSRP is distorted by the ready availability of cheap online dealers.

Outside of the tiny little niche of BGG centric board game retail, MAP policies ( even though in this case there doesn't appear to be one coming ) don't discriminate based on volume. Even the smallest dealer will raise the ire of both the vendor and other retailers if they are off price , And even if they aren't breaking MAP, the vendor hears about it from other dealers.

SuperflyTNT wrote: Retail sales accounts for 90% of hobby game sales, so says the author.

The data quoted are for sales generally, worldwide. That's not a valid comparison to the specialist hobby market. I imagine gamers are more internet-savvy than the average shopper and, given the amount they spend, possibly more price sensitive too.

I have no idea where this is going to go, although it'll be fascinating to see. I'm not even sure if these policies apply in Europe or not. There's not much I can do about what Asmodee choose to do with their retail policies. I don't even have a FLGS in even remotely easy reach so if stuff does disappear from online stores, I can't buy it. End of.

But I will echo the previous comment that people owning less games and playing them more could well be a good thing for the hobby overall, in terms of average product quality.

MattDP wrote:

SuperflyTNT wrote: Retail sales accounts for 90% of hobby game sales, so says the author.

But I will echo the previous comment that people owning less games and playing them more could well be a good thing for the hobby overall, in terms of average product quality.

But that is not the average BGG user, pounding away on their keyboards amidst a haze of Cheeto dust as they rage against perceived "illegal" commerce practices.

Msample wrote: But that is not the average BGG user, pounding away on their keyboards amidst a haze of Cheeto dust as they rage against perceived "illegal" commerce practices.

There's nothing "illegal" about it. They're free to charge what they want, distribute how they want. And I'm free not to buy it. Incidentally, I hate Cheetos as well as Cheeto dust.

So...is the "official" Fortress position on this, "Yes, charge us more for games?" Have I summed this up pretty clearly?


EDIT: I'd also like to add that Chris Peterson is the same guy that blacklisted Barnes for a couple of less-than-glowing reviews of FFG titles, as well as the guy who forbid his employees to read our website. In the industry that's what we refer to as a "petty motherfucker." I find the sudden cheer-leading for him (by proxy, at least) completely fascinating.

While I can't speak for everyone else, my "position" is more like a Gallic shrug. It's the reality of the retail business. Sure we'd all like cheaper games, but I also understand the retail realities involved. I am not necessarily taking a side, more like being entertained by all the rhetoric being thrown around on BGG. Those railing against the "greedy" Asmodee are no less greedy in their holy jihad to pay rock bottom prices .

Msample wrote: While I can't speak for everyone else, my "position" is more like a Gallic shrug. It's the reality of the retail business. Sure we'd all like cheaper games, but I also understand the retail realities involved. I am not necessarily taking a side, more like being entertained by all the rhetoric being thrown around on BGG. Those railing against the "greedy" Asmodee are no less greedy in their holy jihad to pay rock bottom prices .

Well, I'm not on a Jihad, either. I'll gladly pay what games are worth. I paid $160 for Cthulhu Wars and am out $230 on Onslaught Two.

But they're smoking weed if they think that the exact same contents for Fury of Dracula, for example, now cost $20 more in MSRP than they used to, despite them realizing a much better economy of scale than they did in 2006. I'd always just let them off the hook for that, thinking they were raising the "MSRP" so that it would take into account actual discount prices. But no, they soon expect you to pay that inflated price as well.

Fact is, for economies of scale, somehow you're getting more content for your money from upstarts like CMON and others.

Instead of allowing the market to decide, they're mucking with both supply and demand in an artificial manner. Again, totally legal. And again, I'm free to shop somewhere else. I have the feeling they've taken into account lost sales from gamers like me, and hell, they'll probably be fine. But I'll not speak of their company (or any of the companies that now comprise the multinational conglomerate) in any sort of glowing light, nor recommend them to anyone either.

I don't review or discuss games like I used to, so again, this will have very little impact.