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What TV SHOWS are you watching?

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31 Oct 2017 13:01 #256707 by JEM
Replied by JEM on topic What TV SHOWS are you watching?
As serious as I care to get when discussing made up bullshit, yes.

Let's make a nostalgic TV show, and set it in Crackertown, Indiana. We'll give the one notable black character a gag lifted from Keith David's "fourth ghostbuster" line in Community. Then we'll get in some chick from the Asian subcontinent and she can be a terrorist.

It's redolent with the same white nostalgia that Barnes claims is fueling the alt-right.
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31 Oct 2017 15:31 #256718 by Grudunza
I really liked, but didn't quite love, the first season of Stranger Things. So I was a little ambivalent about getting into another season. But two episodes in, it has hooked me again. Not in an "unabashedly love it" way, but in the same "really like it" way as before. And that's cool. I was pleasantly surprised about how breezy that first episode was, and how immediately I was invested in that world and with those characters again. And though I should have seen it coming a mile away, that first episode conclusion gave me the feels, big time, to see that reveal.

The 80's nostalgia thing is slopped on a bit thick at times. Yeah, we get it. And sure, it's all kinds of derivative. But so what... It's still fun, and somehow feels fresh among all that's out there in TV land. There's a touch of arrogance to a second season like this, where all involved probably didn't think it would even happen, but then it became this huge hit... but there's also more confidence to it, and more money for SFX, so that's good.

I keep hearing about this big weird controversial episode 7. Thankfully not any more specifically than that. But whatever it is, if it is really a game-changer and shakes things up, that's probably a good thing at that point.

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01 Nov 2017 11:06 #256766 by GorillaGrody

JEM wrote: As serious as I care to get when discussing made up bullshit, yes.

Let's make a nostalgic TV show, and set it in Crackertown, Indiana. We'll give the one notable black character a gag lifted from Keith David's "fourth ghostbuster" line in Community. Then we'll get in some chick from the Asian subcontinent and she can be a terrorist.

It's redolent with the same white nostalgia that Barnes claims is fueling the alt-right.


Yeah, I found the first one fun, if a little slight. But having finished the latest iteration, and without giving any spoilers, I found this a boring slog, and sort of a delivery system for Proud Boys/alt right dog whistling. I mean, what in the hell do the Duffer Brothers even think a woman or a girlfriend or a mother even is, except some kind of a weird, blathering ideal? It's like they took all the female cast members aside at the start of filming and said "Okay, you're all girlfriends. You're going to be his girlfriend, you're going to be his girlfriend..." Why would the Max character even spend five minutes with these Trumpshirts (just kidding/not kidding) helping them navigate the mysteries of the pulsing pink tunnels and the sucking, unknowable triangle monster with legs that lives in the upside-down world?

It all just left a bad taste in my mouth. My wife hated it (and she loved the first one).
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01 Nov 2017 11:25 - 01 Nov 2017 11:31 #256769 by Mr. White
This is going to sound a bit like splitting hairs, but there's actually a difference between the Proud Boys and the Alt-right. The Proud Boys believe that western culture is the best we've produced so far, but are inclusive of people of all colors, sexual orientation, etc. The alt-right is your new flavour of nazi.

EDIT: They both seem to like that Trump though, so I suppose the inclusion of both for the above example is fair.
Last edit: 01 Nov 2017 11:31 by Mr. White.

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01 Nov 2017 11:34 #256772 by GorillaGrody
Not to unsplit hairs, but doesn't "your new flavor of Nazi" basically "believe that western culture is the best we've produced so far." Also, don't the Proud Boys also have this very specific thing about women's roles vs. allowing oneself to masturbate and also something about Ghostbusters? In the end, my point is that I really don't want to distinguish between one type of deep-signaling right-wing asshole and another.

Basically, if you showed up to march for the right in Charlottesville, you're all of a piece, as far as I'm concerned.

Stranger Things 2 is not this, necessarily, but the gender thing really struck a note of "these women are trying to take everything away from us, what they want is scary, let's go back to something we can all understand." Just a note, but enough to turn us off from it.
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01 Nov 2017 11:36 #256775 by Black Barney
good post, Gorilla. You're one of the good ones.
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01 Nov 2017 11:39 - 01 Nov 2017 11:44 #256777 by Mr. White
I'm not sure the Proud Boys marched in Charlottesville.

I think you're right about the women's role thing, and like I said in my edit before your post came in...they made sense in your example.

Either way, I'm not a member or apologist, but I do think it's entirely possible for someone to like the advancements of the west but not be a far right nazi...or even a general racist, sexist asshole. Hard to qualify that in these times though.
Last edit: 01 Nov 2017 11:44 by Mr. White.
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01 Nov 2017 11:53 - 01 Nov 2017 14:28 #256781 by GorillaGrody
No, I didn't read you as an apologist. We're okay, I think. Unless, of course, you don't think there's a relative value to different cultures, or a value to knowing how more than one of them operates at a level for which "best" isn't really meaningful.

Okay, but back to Stranger Things 2, and maybe my last post about it. I have forgiven many movies with "bad" politics because they were just fun or scary or well-made enough enough for me to forgive them. But the pacing of this show is just atrocious, like waiting for your turn at the dentist, but instead of fixing your teeth, the dentist sits you in a chair, shines that light in your face, and asks you whether you saw Aliens, and you say, yeah, everyone saw Aliens, and then the dentist says, okay, but did you see Firestarter? Like he's trying to stump you on a test for which everyone already got an A.
Last edit: 01 Nov 2017 14:28 by GorillaGrody.
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01 Nov 2017 14:07 #256791 by Frohike
I agree with some of the misgivings here. For all of its careful tiptoe-ing & waffling around intradiegetic racism and sexism, it seems to stumble extradiegetically. The Winston gag starts to enter an interesting moment but the dialog is conspicuously muted before we hear much else. Billy's admonition to stay away from "those types of people" feels really forced and needlessly veiled. He doesn't strike me as someone who minces words or speaks in guarded aphorisms, so maybe they should have written him less timidly and allowed some racial slurs to contaminate their carefully curated 80s world? Again, I get a disneyfication vibe that bugs me because it also embraces other aspects of this style that, for all of the energy expended on preserving a PG-13 universe also preserves blind spots in character direction & writing. Like why are the core female players, Max especially, initially written as empowered badasses only to be gradually distilled down to foci of love triangles? What's with that?

Then there's the deeper deconstructive readings like Gorilla's where the imagery underlying the horrors is pretty comically transparent.
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01 Nov 2017 18:17 #256816 by Michael Barnes
Speaking of mincing words- let's not. Proud Boys are fucking scum. That whole bullshit "movement" is revolting, and they are absolutely an alt-right phenomenon.

I finished the show, I loved it. The ending was lovely.

Warning: Spoiler!
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01 Nov 2017 19:57 #256825 by hotseatgames
The guy who played conspiracy theory dude is a CIA spook on Narcos. He's a jerk there, too.

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01 Nov 2017 20:44 - 01 Nov 2017 23:17 #256826 by Jackwraith
Replies to MB's comments:

Warning: Spoiler!
Last edit: 01 Nov 2017 23:17 by Jackwraith.
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01 Nov 2017 20:45 - 01 Nov 2017 20:51 #256828 by Mr. White

GorillaGrody wrote: No, I didn't read you as an apologist. We're okay, I think. Unless, of course, you don't think there's a relative value to different cultures, or a value to knowing how more than one of them operates at a level for which "best" isn't really meaningful.


To be honest...I'm not really sure how to respond to this. There's a lot of fight in your posts. I just clarified some statements, not sure why there's an attempt to paint me as an online enemy to tilt at.

Last edit: 01 Nov 2017 20:51 by Mr. White.

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01 Nov 2017 21:01 #256829 by Black Barney
I don’t think he’s doing that White. You’re just walking on shaky ground by talking about the pride thing a bit, that’s all.

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01 Nov 2017 21:17 - 01 Nov 2017 21:19 #256830 by Mr. White
I'm on shaky ground? for what?
what pride thing?
Last edit: 01 Nov 2017 21:19 by Mr. White.
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