I'm Tired of these "Super-Niche" Games!!!

the*mad*gamer wrote:

but your statement is interesting with respect that it is a good game for the non fan.

This is the first time I have heard this from anyone.

im glad to second that statement. Im not a fan of the series, but think the game is great. You don't have to know the series

Sometimes you gotta look past the license and the fanboy/girl adoration and see what the game is offering.

Star Wars: Escape from the Death Star to Queen's Gambit is a great example of both. I LOVE the original 3 films (well the first two) and fuckin' hated the last 3. I hate SW:EFDS but love SW:QG. And yes it can be the opposite as well, I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings books & films and love War of the Ring.

Again I attribute that to the quality and mechanics of the game not my feelings for the trilogy.

[nerdspeak]There wouldn't be a new Battlestar Galactica or a bunch of other stuff if Babylon 5's novel for television approach hadn't been as successful in the U.S. as it was. So give credit where credit chip is due my friend.
While both are to some extent about galactic politics, war, and intrigues; I will give BSG the upper hand in that it has a lot more, and better quality, character drama and single episode stories. But I feel B5 definitely captured a classic space opera better than any other show has. BSG's overall story has yet to impress me. The Cylons clearly never had a fucking plan and neither did the writers.[/nerdspeak]


As for the BSG game, I haven't played it but I'm thinking like Michael that the themes are universal so you can enjoy it regardless of seeing the show. In fact the culture of humans on the show is very close to our own culture making it easy to relate to the characters, which probably helps its appeal to a wider audience.

the*mad*gamer wrote:

Looking forward to your review! I have no doubt you will tell it like it is , however the fact that you like the early seasons of the show still make you a fan.

I'm sounding like a broken record by now, but I aint a 'fan' of BSG. There was never a period where I thought it was fantastic - early on it had highs and lows, but was kind of building towards being really good, and then kind of fucked itself and got really stupid.

Basically BSG is an awsome concept coupled with some of the shittiest character work that is no where near as good as it should be. I'll watch the rest but really its like heroes for me; simply wasted potential.

Mad Dog wrote:

The Cylons clearly never had a fucking plan and neither did the writers.

The writers first need to work out what a fucking cylon is. They have changed the rules to them so much, and dropped so many plot points about them, that it's more than apparent they don't know.

Only my huge gigantic fandom for Gears of War keeps me hopeful about that project...

BSG as a show is OK. It does have a lot of great themes: what does it mean to be human, the nature of government and military, deceit and betrayal. But it's execution ranges from great to downright hokey. Apollo as an undercover sleuth? Really? the entire population of what a couple thousand people don't know who the son of the entire fleet is? Starbuck is the ace fighter pilot and she's leading a special forces assault team to deal with a hostage situation? Huh? I doubt any of us would trust a fighter pilot to do the same in our real world. I can accept robots in outer space trying to kill humans but those examples just jumped the shark for me.

Firefly has theme though. It plays on the same things of Westerns past and even the recent Pirates of the Caribbean movies. It's about freedom. Striking out on your own to make your own fortune and your own destiny. It's what makes freelances freelance and small business owners own their small businesses. The satisfaction of what you have is what you made or earned by your own hands. Not because some corporation or government compensated you for your time and effort. Firefly is also about family (or a better definition those with whom you surround yourself with and treat as family) despite each others' flaws, despite each others' differences. People don't just like it because it was canceled or because Joss Whedon is their master. It strikes a chord with them.

Firefly is about dogshit whendonspeak, 'kewl' cardboard characters and pissing me off with it's overhype. Dollhouse proves it beyond a fucking doubt.

Man, it's like throwing in a bloody peice of meat into a very nerdy pack of wild, rabid dogs.

And you're all wrong - best sci fi universe is Starship Troopers. Would you like to know more?

the*mad*gamer wrote:

Steve, have you seen BSG?

I tried to watch it but to me it is terrible. Some of the worst acting ever on a TV show. It is a point of great contention between my brother and me. My brother LOVES the show and met the actors at Dragoncon several years ago.

The actors are trying so hard to avoid a "kitschy" show as you say, or to avoid a Shatner "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN" moment that they come across as boring.

I can understand why the show is liked by nerds because this "emotionless" acting feeds their own "Spock Personalities" but the show is overated , lifeless, dull and to me unwatchable. The serious themes you speak about are played out with such lack of passion that watching paint dry is more exciting.

However, my dislike for the show is not the reason I am down on this game. My point is that if you are going to use a license don't paint with so fine a brush.

This is coming from someone that thinks "original" Trek is the high point of acting. Original Trek is basically shit with a few decent episodes that were written by some top sci fi writers of the time aka Harlan Ellison etc. Edward James Olmos cant act but Shatner can? RIGGGHHHHTTTT. The mad gamers review and his trying to watch it comes from watching maybe half an episode mid season of the second year. From someone with the trek mentality he cant seem to understand about continuity and season long story lines. So he just deemed the show Shit and acts like he knows everything about it. There is also a nerd buddy who raved about the show so the mad gamer had to deem it shit anyway. I could buy this game and it could be one of the best games ever but the mad gamer would deem it shit also and a niche game no matter how good it is. This goes hand in hand with the mentality that Classic Trek was good and everything new is shit just like things were better when you had to spend hours rolling dice and figuring up shit that a computer can do in seconds. It is just nostalgia not that things were better. Adapt or Die!

It looks like a cheap cash grab for nerd money too. I appreciate creativity in gaming rather than slapped on themes. I much prefer the original Sci Fi universe of Nexus Ops. It belongs to the gamer. Let them make a Nexus Ops movie, not the other way around.

Looks like we are in for more "lack of creativity" with the "Gears of War" game.

But with so many of you saying BSG is good for non fans I will try with my group and report back.

Starship Troopers? I barely remember the book, but the wargame is great. The movie is a an expensive joke, a few good concepts trumped by special CGI and then wasted on poor acting. I am truly bewildered that there have been two sequels.

The mad gamer ranted and ranted on BGG about the lack of "theme" in many euros like Caylus. Now BSG is being deemed a SUPER niche game. I would think that a BSG game is ripe with theme even if it is not a good game. Hot cylon Babes vs wooden cubes which would you choose? BSG has a huge following and while all those may not be gamers they might be willing to buy the game just for the hell of it and find that they like it then buy more games from the same company. Would the game sell more if it was called Androids in Space? How does Niche put you in the ditch?

Shellhead wrote:

Starship Troopers? I barely remember the book, but the wargame is great. The movie is a an expensive joke, a few good concepts trumped by special CGI and then wasted on poor acting. I am truly bewildered that there have been two sequels.

The book was alright, but the movies were amazing.

I just recently watched Starship Troopers 2: Hero of the Federation and Starship Troopers 3: Marauder. Don't you worry - I'm working on my reviews of them. I've gotta spread the gospel.


"Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst."

I can't speak for the Mad Gamer, but since there seems to be some nerd rage stirred up over the new BSG, I'll speak a bit on how I was unimpressed with it.

I only watched about 4-5 episodes of the first season and found it to be an absolute bore. It seemed like every episode was structured in the following way:

The first half shifted between personal stories of the crew and some hot chick cylon thrown in for the dateless. Then a little past the midway point, the cylons would attack killing a bunch of humans. Repeatedly through several episodes this involved the leaders making the decision on how many humans to sacrifice for the rest while they jumped. This was followed by a bunch of forlorn looks and subtraction on the dry erase board (dry erase? really?). Finally, they would throw in a bit of suspicion on who may or may not be a cylon. Repeat every episode (that I saw).

The writing was on the wall on how this show was going to go down. I haven't seen anymore episodes, but I would guess the writers are constantly shifting who the cylons are at the end of each episode to keep fans coming back. They probably break any kind of rules or consistency in what cylons are along the way. Again, I've only seen a few episodes, but the characters also came off as boring and the dialogue unmemorable.

At least with Original Star Trek the characters are entertaining and the shows are somewhat varied.

I have no opinion on the boardgame though.

(edit: and put me in the camp that though the Starship Troopers movie was a lot of fun - I could care less how much it followed the book.)

Ska_baron wrote:

"Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst."

Testify!