I'm Tired of these "Super-Niche" Games!!!

OK, hi! I never watched a single episode of the show (neither the old one). Heh, I don't even own a TV or watch TV program on the computer, which is about the same thing. Moreover I don't find SciFi very appealing.

But BSG is a great game! It's SHADOWS OVER CHAMELOT done right. I don't even consider it a "niche-game", because it will probably attract more customers in a mall than CARCASSONNE ... maybe except for the fact that your average customer is wary of licensed games or other products because too many of these for a too long time basically just sucked a herd of donkies.

For example this is a niche-game: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/5769 .

Dollhouse isn't even out yet.

BSG is probably the best new game in a couple of years.

It doesn't do anything new. It builds pretty much entirely on existing games, and owes a pretty hefty debt to Camelot.

In a lot of ways, it is a reworking of Camelot with different elements to emulate BSG. Along the way, they fixed the major problems with Camelot.

It also has a very Euro-y reductionist thing going. The rules have practically no special cases or exceptions, save for the ones spelled out in front of you on the cards.



As to being closely tied to BSG. It is, but that isn't a requisite for playing at all. If you are familiar with the basic rules of space opera, the idea that Cylons are against the humans, and that the President deals with the civilian populace, while the Admiral manages the military and weapons--everything will make sense.

Certainly no worse off than you would be if they made up their own characters and assigned some powers to the character concepts that you know.

The reason Barnes adores the game so much is that the attention to detail and theme is quite remarkable.

Even though the show itself isn't half as good as Firefly.

the*mad*gamer wrote:

Got BSG on order, despite the fact I pretty much hate the later seasons of the show. So if it's crap I'll be sure to let you know steve.

But there are many non 'niche' games, set on farms and kings courts and stuff. Maybe try those.
Please note, although no boardcode and smiley buttons are shown, they are still useable

Looking forward to your review! I have no doubt you will tell it like it is , however the fact that you like the early seasons of the show still make you a fan.

I am still not buying that the game will fly with non fans of BSG.

I think you need 1 fan of the show at the table to provide a little background fluff at times, but, frankly, the game needs absolutely nothing from fans in order to be a strong entertainment experience. I think you could retheme this one a variety of ways, licensed or not, and it would still be a solid game. And, Ska Baron above, is the case study for non-fans digging the game. Simply put, the game plays like a motherfucker, which actually makes the niche theme nearly irrelevant.

Then again, I also think Dune is perfectly fantastic game even if you're like me, who never gave a shit about Spice, sand, or the glowy blue eyes of the Kumquadt-HaagenDaaz....

I'm sorry, but to fault BSG's acting and writing in comparison to some of the utter shit that has passed for SF TV is ridiculous. Even in classic Trek, there are some AWFUL performances and truly trash writing. And any Trek series that isn't TOS or Next Generation is pretty much bottom-of-the-barrel crap anyway. I don't want to hear it about DEEP SPACE NINE, VOYAGER, etc.- I've watched them, and they're garbage.

I'm not saying BSG is the perfect show, but it's a hell of a lot more mature and well-written than BABYLON 5 or FIREFLY. The amount of juvenile writing and fanbase pandering in either of those shows is terrifying.

BSG has mostly good acting, mostly good writing, and surprisingly high production values for a TV space opera. Sure, the last season and a half have been kind of a mess with some horribly rushed development and some sloppy narrative threads, but by and large a bad episode of BSG (and there's only a handful I'd really call bad) is better than most anything else that's on TV. You can tell that it was a case where they had written a season and a half worth of material but when it hit, they didn't know how to carry that further. The filler episodes tend to be the worst. That black market one where Apollo was shacking up with the hooker was TERRIBLE, as was the boxing show. But then there are episodes that are as good as anything I've ever seen on TV.

It comes down to this- if you like a show like BABYLON 5 as a whole, then you're going to say that it has awesome acting and writing...even if, objectively, it doesn't. I've seen people defend to the death the writing, acting, and direction of shows like fucking SPACE: ABOVE AND BEYOND just because they liked it- not because of any actual aesthetic or artistic merits.

As for the game...I think it is one of the best games, if not _the_ best game in the past several years. It does draw pretty heavily from SoC in terms of concept, but it totally reframes the whole setup and replaces all the empty card play with actual thematic material and an incredibly strong sense of narrative. I do think it's pretty innovative in how it translates the license into game rules (seriously, nothing since DUNE has done it this well) and it does feel like a different game than anything else out there. There's just so much, the game is really comprehensive and the fact that it's more about making life or death decisions than robots and spaceships is really signficant.

SPACE: ABOVE AND BEYOND...was that the show where they found Blitzkrieg Bop in some capsule...?

If so, that's reason enough to be pretty good!

I'm sorry, but to fault BSG's acting and writing in comparison to some of the utter shit that has passed for SF TV is ridiculous. Even in classic Trek, there are some AWFUL performances and truly trash writing. And any Trek series that isn't TOS or Next Generation is pretty much bottom-of-the-barrel crap anyway. I don't want to hear it about DEEP SPACE NINE, VOYAGER, etc.- I've watched them, and they're garbage.

The acting on BSG is terrible! As is most of the acting on Star Trek The next generation. The only time those next generation episodes or movies were brought to life was when th eold Trek characters showed up as guests!

You may know games Barnes but when it comes to movies or entertainment in general you are as clueless as they come.

Want proof?

You think "The Fall" is good!

That's cool...I'll take The Fall and you can have GILLIGAN'S ISLAND.

That's cool...I'll take The Fall and you can have GILLIGAN'S ISLAND.

Why don't you go blow your Gameshark check on a few tokens at the arcade, play a few games of "Ghost Squad"

Yell "Fuck" a few times to draw attention to yourself, while wearing Black reeboks

then go home and watch "Tarkan vs the Vikings" while you try to convince yourself that that is good SCI Fi action and writing.

Michael Barnes wrote:

That's cool...I'll take The Fall and you can have GILLIGAN'S ISLAND.

"High production values" is film-nerd-speak for "distracting eyecandy employed so no one notices how lousy the writing is." Big fucking deal....the rubber suits and converted vacuum cleaner props off the 1970s Dr. Who sets would have merely highlighted how wretched the series became. No matter how many excuses you make, the entire last season of BSG was unwatchable crap from start to finish...narrative nonsense with completely hamfisted acting to boot. The series started well but limped on home like the neutered 3-legged dog that it became. It was, without question, *worse* than the Sisko as Messiah seasons of Deep Space 9.

Michael Barnes wrote:

The filler episodes tend to be the worst. That black market one where Apollo was shacking up with the hooker was TERRIBLE

I always here that episode getting picked on but I didn't think it was that bad, ditto the revolting workers one (excpet for the last 5 mins of the episode which was A grade retarded.)

Want a shit episode, how about the last one screened. You know the one where after half a season of buildup the final 4 finally reveal themselves to the fleet and... THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES! Armada cries in his bathroom for one scene then it's back to normal?!?! THAT is what I was waiting months to see? Or how about the bit where Starbuck fulfills the prophecy by descovering earth... by finding a signal accidently on a viper computer? Who seriously writes this shit?

And yet the fans ate that crap up and claimed it was the best episode ever? It was the most anticlimactic rubbish I have ever seen.

Want to know BSG's problem, look at Baltar. A great character who the writers have had no idea of what to do with for 1 and a half seasons now. They should have killed him off ages ago, but instead for all its angst the show lacks balls.

I read somewhere that they were "pushed" to make the show more accessible to new viewers in the second and third season by doing done in one storylines. The reason being that a continuing story line was too much for most viewers aka the Mad Gamer. This was the said reason that the show began to tank and ratings actually declined instead of picked up.

The network-ordered "filler" episodes — or "self-contained," if you want to use a friendlier term — are almost universally bad.

The boxing tournament episode was the low point, for my money. I was completely embarrassed to even be a genre fan after watching that one.

Hey, that's what the BSG boardgame needs! A "Boxing Tournament" card!

GameZombie wrote:

I read somewhere that they were "pushed" to make the show more accessible to new viewers in the second and third season by doing done in one storylines. The reason being that a continuing story line was too much for most viewers aka the Mad Gamer. This was the said reason that the show began to tank and ratings actually declined instead of picked up.

I really don't think it was any worse until about the last 6 episodes of season 3. I didn't really notice an overall decline prior to that, apart from an episode here and there that was clearly garbage (i.e. the previously mentioned boxing episode. not a patch on the one from babylon 5)

note: I haven't seen any of season 4.

No discussion of bad tv science-fiction shows will be complete until Farscape is mentioned. It was unbelievably lame and silly, although it did have a better effects budget than early Doctor Who.