GW and FFG Breaking Up?

MattDP wrote: GW have to try and turn a profit, but they've earned a lot of the cynicism down the years.

True, but even a lot of us cynics are coming back around again.

I was talking to the guy at the lgs over lunch as I was picking up Bulls POD characters.

He mentioned the separation.

He also talked very favorably about gw. Seems they're playing nicer, are selling sets that are great deals on minis so armies are overall cheaper, and that AoS players are spiking. He also mentioned the hopeful move of 40k to AoS style rules.

I sound like a gw shill in this thread....

metalface13 wrote:

MattDP wrote: GW have to try and turn a profit, but they've earned a lot of the cynicism down the years.

True, but even a lot of us cynics are coming back around again.

Oh yeah, me too. Ultimately it's about the games. I still don't trust GW with a collectible miniatures line, but a stand alone boxed set is a different matter. And they're kicking up some great stuff on that front.

It's just worth remembering that a lot of the bad feeling was earned. GW is just reaping what it sowed from the haters.

My love of gaming came from GW back in the 80's. I never got into the minis so I have nothing adverse to say about them. Being able to buy Space Hulk 3rd ed. only made me dig them more.

I am certainly not going to be a GW apologist here. Matt is correct, they have earned a lot of ire over the years. I remember the three Rhinos suddenly becoming one Rhino. That was some bullshit if ever there were. It was definitely a situation where they were likely undercharging for the product and then wound up overcharging while they were feeling out the limit...but then people bought instead of saying no, and that has snowballed. Serious GW hobbyists don't bat an eye at $35 models for single figures. That is the expectation that GW has engineered over the years.

I grew up with GW and they've always been a part of my hobby story in some way or another. And I can definitely see how especially in the late 90s and on they managed to come across as a callous, remote organization almost completely detached from, well, reality. I think that is changing, I think the recent boxed game initiative is a sign of that and I think that rather boldly jettisoning the Old World in favor of a simpler, "ground floor" approach to their fantasy line was a pretty smart move regardless of how much I liked TOW. You'll hear veteran talk about how "nobody" likes AOS, but the truth is that the line and playerbase for it is growing at an exponentially faster rate than WHFB had experienced in over a decade.

But yeah, no doubt, GW gets up to some shystie shit. Believe me, I've worked professionally with them. I'd get in two cases of the LOTR miniature game that I didn't order so I'd call my GW sales rep- "Oops! That was an accident. Say, why don't you try to sell them and if they don't I can take them off your invoice?" Or the time that some dudes from Nottingham set up a meeting with me so they could check out my store and talk expanding the GW product line. So these guys come in and pretty much tell me that I should get rid of everything but GW product. I tell them quite plainly that board games are my #1 product and that the WHFB stuff is completely DOA, and I'm doing only around a grand of 40k a month. "Well, if you dedicate this entire wall to our displays we can send you more stuff to sell and you will see an increase there". HUH? Then I find out later on that these guys actually went to every shop in town because they were looking for a "weak link" to buy out and set up a GW store.

The boxed games are totally loss leaders...and it is RAGINGLY apparent. The four Mighty Heroes for Silver Tower is $55, which is more than 1/3 the price of the box. And the box has like 50 miniatures in it or whatever. So that makes the $55 box look like a total ripoff. Their pricing is so out of whack.

Dr. Mabuse wrote: My love of gaming came from GW back in the 80's. I never got into the minis so I have nothing adverse to say about them. Being able to buy Space Hulk 3rd ed. only made me dig them more.

Exactly. Now they're releasing new editions of Blood Bowl and Epic with more of the old "specialist" games to come.

metalface13 wrote:

DukeofChutney wrote: Should I pick up Forbidden Stars?

That is really what this runs down to. I have played more or less every other FFG GW game that interests me.

Yeah, who has played this one? It was on the clearance table at my FLGS a while back, should have snagged it. I could be down with a 40k DoaM game.

Get it. It was my favorite game of last year. If you like GW, 40K, and FFG, it's a no brainer. It's an awesome game - though I find it kind of exhausting, because there's almost no downtime and you're constantly planning your next move (except when other people are resolving combat, but that goes quickly - don't listen to the BGG haters).

It might be one of those games I'll regret not getting (Forbidden Stars) but I have starcraft and expansion so it's a really hard sell.

Michael Barnes wrote: The boxed games are totally loss leaders...and it is RAGINGLY apparent. The four Mighty Heroes for Silver Tower is $55, which is more than 1/3 the price of the box. And the box has like 50 miniatures in it or whatever. So that makes the $55 box look like a total ripoff. Their pricing is so out of whack.

And compared to buying those 4 figures in the Mighty Heroes separately, it's a good deal. I think there's a mini in that box that's like $40 by itself. Which just goes to show how crazy GW pricing can be. I don't mind paying so much for some of the giant monsters, and their per dude price on infantry isn't all that bad, but damn are characters ridiculous.

There was also a Talisman expansion not even six months ago, though Sam Baily said on the BGG forums that it was his last, and that he wasn't sure what would happen with the line, since he had left FFG by the time it came out.

Also, if those 4 characters are to pricey too justify...they just gave away a free character in WD.

I believe GoreChosen will also provide another 4 models to use in ST.

Anymore to the rumor that WHQ:ST was going to be one of their core lines? It's a nice idea to think that most models coming out for AoS will also have ST stats...

EDIT: Either way, these extra characters are just that...extras and optional. Do we hold FFG to the same flame? How can they justify a $10 Imperial Assault figure when there's like 35-40 in the base box? That base box didn't cost $350 It's how it goes though...expansions, of any sort from any line will not be as good of a deal as the respective base set.

Mr. White wrote: Do we hold FFG to the same flame? How can they justify a $10 Imperial Assault figure when there's like 35-40 in the base box?

While a valid point this isn't entirely a fair comparison. An IA figure nets you some new command cards, a new map and some new skirmish scenarios alongside the plastic. Same goes for X-Wing & Armada. With Mighty Heroes you don't even get character cards for the figures.

BUT the characters can be used in at least TWO different games...multiplied value!
(WHQ:ST, AoS,...maybe GoreChosen via WD or something, maybe a future game..)

EDIT: with the talk of doing an AoS hackjob to the 40K rules...what do y'all think the odds are that GW pulls a PP and make 40k and AoS...compatible?

Figures seem fairly cheap on the secondary market for GW. I list figures on Ebay as part of my job and I'm continually surprised by how low I have to price to stay competitive. I assume it's because people want to assemble/paint themselves, though assembled and primed stuff usually goes pretty fast.

What part of Fury of Dracula does GW own beyond the name? You can't copyright game mechanics and the book is public domain and all the art is FFG's.