GW and FFG Breaking Up?

Msample wrote: BGGers, most of whom don't know shit about W40K, have been burying Games Workshop for years. They'll hate on any company that shows overt signs of trying to make a profit ( MAP policies, licensing, IP , etc ) then turn around and throw scads of money at "causes" like Kickstarters. BGG "fundraising" , etc.

Also, aren't GW games made in the UK?

If so, makes their price a little more palatable when the same price buys you made in China minis in a KS game.

Who's marking up more?

If anyone was on the fence about getting the WHQ card game, just pick it up if you see it. It's really good, and there's definitely enough in the box to justify the cost. Would it have benefitted from mroe content? Probably, but what we have now is just fine. The delve quest in particular is really good.

I am the most bummed about Talisman. That's the sort of game that makes gamers, though I'm not sure how much it does anymore. But it's totally something you can get into when you're like 10 years old and that will open your eyes to all this stuff at a young age. Not many companies in this hobby seem concerned with catching gamers young.

GW makes all of their stuff in the UK. Paints are all non-toxic. I am willing to pay a premium for NOT made in China. The difference is unmistakable.

Most of the GW bile comes from people who never played a GW game and just see the prices...without bothering to notice that GW is the Cadillac dealership, all these Kickstarter outfits are the Hyundai dealership.

Mr. White wrote:

Msample wrote: BGGers, most of whom don't know shit about W40K, have been burying Games Workshop for years. They'll hate on any company that shows overt signs of trying to make a profit ( MAP policies, licensing, IP , etc ) then turn around and throw scads of money at "causes" like Kickstarters. BGG "fundraising" , etc.

Also, aren't GW games made in the UK?

If so, makes their price a little more palatable when the same price buys you made in China bubble gum minis in a KS game.

I'm not picking on you, and I think Barnes first made that bubble gum vending machine comparison in the past. But it's simply not true.

Here's a shot of bubble minis I found on google. I didn't cherry pick this but this seemed accurate to what I've seen out of those machines.



For $85 on Kickstarter, roughly $40 less than Silver Tower launched at, I received this from KS:



144 minis of this quality:




Painted up from BGG users:

I had some stuff on my CSI wishlist and already the run is on, its selling down .

san il defanso wrote: If anyone was on the fence about getting the WHQ card game, just pick it up if you see it. It's really good, and there's definitely enough in the box to justify the cost. Would it have benefitted from mroe content? Probably, but what we have now is just fine. The delve quest in particular is really good.

I am the most bummed about Talisman. That's the sort of game that makes gamers, though I'm not sure how much it does anymore. But it's totally something you can get into when you're like 10 years old and that will open your eyes to all this stuff at a young age. Not many companies in this hobby seem concerned with catching gamers young.

Talisman will be back. GW made 4 editions before the ffg hand-off. It's their marquee casual boardgame.

It may be AoS themed (or maybe not their black industries 4th wasn't necessarily old world), but Talisman isn't dead.

@charlie, I pulled the bubble gum crack prior to your post. True there are good sculpts but who is marking up more? The $100 made in China kickstarter or $125 made in UK GW?

Not trying to pick a fight over the merits of Kickstarter, but what's the MSRP for all that stuff if I didn't preorder it 6+ months in advance?

Mr. White wrote: @charlie, I pulled the bubble gum crack prior to your post. True there are good sculpts but who is marking up more? The $100 made in China kickstarter or $125 made in UK GW?

That's a good question and you may be right. I'm not a GW hater though (I'm an old school Necromunda/WHQ/WHFB/SH 1st and 2e fan). I just feel like I need to rage against the anti-KS group think here every once awhile because much of the time people perpetuate stuff that simply isn't true.

Standard BG price markup is 5x manufacturing cost. Many people do it differently and I wouldn't be surprised if CMON made more off their games due to massive economy of scale. But I do feel like I received MUCH better value out of my Blood Rage and The Others pledges than I did out of my Silver Tower purchase (I like Silver Tower quite a bit too).

Do you think GW's markup on their miniature boxes and single figures is a smaller percentage than CMON's markup? I'd have a hard time being convinced. I know we're talking mainly boxed games but I believe GW runs smaller margins on those because their goal is to pull you into their miniature games.

ufe20 wrote: Not trying to pick a fight over the merits of Kickstarter, but what's the MSRP for all that stuff if I didn't preorder it 6+ months in advance?

Somewhere around $200.

But when we're talking about Kickstarter (which is typically criticism on these forums) we're talking about pledging. If you want to discuss whether the entire line of The Others is worth it compared to GW post release, that's fine but I'm not really interested in that conversation and I'd probably mostly agree with you. No way any GW product gives me the value in terms of dollars to enjoyment that Blood Rage has though (just talking base game).

Most of the discussion hinges around KS and paying money up front/backing.

I fell out of my chair laughing so hard when I read this, which even by BGG standards is pretty fucking clueless.

boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/57558?comment...72931#comment6572931

Msample wrote: I fell out of my chair laughing so hard when I read this, which even by BGG standards is pretty fucking clueless.

boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/57558?comment...72931#comment6572931

Hehe guess a lot of people are wondering what instigated the break up. Read from an ex designer from FFG on reddit that the scuttlebutt was that GW wanted FFG to cease all miniatures games (including SW: X-wing and Armada). I guess FFG makes more money of those games than they do of the GW licenses.


EDIT: Man this thread is moving to fast for me so I missed a whole page of updates. Guess this was already old news....

Anyhow I finally bit the bullet and ordered WHQ:ACG with expensions. I am really trying hard to not break my "Don't buy a game if some1 in your regular gamegroup owns it"-rule, by not buying Forbidden Stars. I already own Starcraft + BW. So there really is no point, is the mantra I keep telling myself....

Did you read what Michael posted upthread ? I seriously doubt GW would be that naive to think FFG would shut down producing what is obviously their most profitable product lines.

The reason I doubt the X-Wing ultimatum story is that X-Wing has been enormously successful for a number of years now. I seriously doubt that it was just in 2016 that GW suddenly thought it was TOO successful. Like was there some invisible line that FFG crossed?

The other thing is that if the X-Wing deal is true, FFG was awfully short-sighted in bringing all the recent GW products to market, like Fury of Dracula and WHQ. I imagine the ANA deal probably had more to do with it than the success of X-Wing.

Let's not go retconning GW history again just to score points over BGG users pretending we are all somehow more urbane and understanding.

I was there when they stopped selling 40K Rhinos three for twenty quid, and reboxed them individually for 15. For the same sprues. It was a conscious strategy on their part to find their customers' pain threshold for pricing and edge it as far as possible. That's where the long-standing GW "hate" comes from- no doubt there are plenty of empty vessels parroting the same complaints now without any context or experience either. But it was a change in the company that was noticed by everyone in the "hobby" at the time, and nothing to do with production costs. Citadel paints back then were like 3-4 times the size they are now. I had a great red that finally dried out after seven years.

No comment on current prices, but some context on history.

My guess is some ANA bean counter did some projections and drew a line through all GW properties, regardless of recent releases. That's typical corporate behaviour.